Discussion:
SHABRIKUMBH: TOWARDS A MASSIVE HINDU AWAKENING
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and/or www.mantra.com/jai (Dr. Jai Maharaj)
2006-02-12 22:59:28 UTC
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SHABRIKUMBH: TOWARDS A MASSIVE HINDU AWAKENING

Forwarded message from ***@yahoo.co.in

[ Subject: Shabrikumbh: towards a massive Hindu awakening
[ From: ***@yahoo.co.in
[ Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2006

Shabrikumbh: towards a massive Hindu awakening

Visit
http://www.shabarikumbh.org

To Protect Vanvasis, Massive Counter-Missionary
Shabarikumbh Planned

Posted January 1, 2006
- From
http://www.christianaggression.org/item_display.php?type=NEWS&id=1136142983

A huge kumbh (religious gathering) of Hindus is on the
cards on February 11, 12 and 13, 2006. Named Shabri Kumbh
it promises to be an unprecedented assembly of awakened
Hindus. The Kumbh will be the culmination of sustained
efforts towards awakening the Hindus in general and the
vanavasi Hindus in the Dang region of Gujarat in
particular.

Vanavasi Hindus target of Christian missionary offensive

For long, Bharat has been a special target of the
Christian Church worldwide. To the Church, the Hindus
represent the greatest stumbling block in their grand
design to establish Christs kingdom on earth. The poor,
illiterate, mild Vanvasi Hindu is an obvious target in
this nefarious scheme. For years, under the garb of
social service, the Church has been spreading its
tentacles in far-flung, tribal regions of our country.
These converted vanavasis become alienated from their
customs and traditions. They get uprooted from their
cultural milieu. Conversion to Christianity is invariably
associated with separatism and terrorism as is evident in
North-East Bharat. There are several areas in our country
which have become hotbeds of christian missionary
activity. The Dang district in Gujarat is one such area.
The word Dang is a corruption of Dandakaranya, the
legendary forest where Shri Raam and Lakshman spent some
time while in exile. It is in this region that Shabari
Mata, the immortal devotee of Shri Raam met her Lord and
lovingly offered him sweet berries which she had tasted
herself. The spot where this meeting took place is
located on Chamak hill in this region. There is a temple
of Shabari Mata at this site. The picturesque Pampa
sarovar (lake) is located in this region. Situated on the
border of Gujarat and Maharashtra, this district is
predominantly inhabited by vanavasi Hindus. The district
has 352 villages; the district headquarter is Ahwa. The
town of Navapur in Maharashtra is close to the Dang
district of Gujarat.

It is pertinent to note that the first church was
established in Dang district in 1904. Since then,
conversions to Christianity had been progressing at an
alarming rate. In the period 1991-2001, the Christian
population grew by a massive 400 per cent! The process of
self-alienation and separatism which inevitably
accompanies conversion had become visible in Dang.
Makeshift, illegal churches had mushroomed in cowsheds
and residential areas. These churches were unregistered
and illegal. Such was the terrorism of Christian
activists that it had become unsafe for Hindus to move
out of their houses after dusk. It was in the midst of
such hostile conditions that a Hindu swami descended upon
Dang

Arrival of Swami Aseemananda

Swami Aseemananda, a Hindu sannyasi heads the shraddha
vibhag of the Akhil Bharatiya Vanavasi Kalyan Ashram. For
over 50 years, the Vanavasi Kalyan Ashram has been doing
yeoman work in the vanavasi regions of Bharat. A Bengali
by birth, Swamiji has spent several years in the Andaman
and Nicobar islands. His innovative and bold methods in
arousing the latent feeling of Hindutva amongst the
vanavasis have made him a byword in the field of Hindu
awakening. Little wonder then that Christian zealots have
made many murderous attempts on his life. Deeply
concerned by the Christianization of Dang, Swamiji
resolved to stay in Dang and foil the designs of
Christian missionaries. It was in August 1997 that this
saffron-clad sannyasi set foot in Dang. All that he
carried with him in this unfamiliar and hostile terrain
were around 500 lockets of Hanuman and an unshakeable
resolve! He would knock at the door of each house and
would ask the inmates one question, "Are you Hindu or
christian?" At the house of one such Hindu, Swamiji asked
him, "May I spend the night in your house?" The Hindu
gladly welcomed Swamiji. Swamiji kept his luggage,
distributed the Hanuman lockets to the children and asked
them to bring their Hindu friends in the evening for a
Ram katha. That night, Dang witnessed the first ever
Dharma sabha. Sensing danger, Christian missionaries
asked Swamiji, "What brings you here?" The Swami posed
them the same question. We have come here to serve the
people replied the Christian missionaries. "I have come
here to drive away those who have come here to serve"
retorted the Swami. That was the beginning of the Hindu
awakening in the Dangs.

Hindu awakening in the Dangs

In 1998, 25000 Christians embraced the religion of their
forefathers in just two months. The submissive Hindu who
had been hitherto terrorized by the Christian
missionaries began to assert himself. "Hindu jaage,
Christi bhaage" became a popular slogan of the vanavasis
of Dang. From 1998-2004, a total of 55 Vishal Hindu
Sammelans were organized. These were attended by a total
of four lakh Hindus. As Hindus objected to conversion
activities of Christian missionaries, clashes broke out.
The so-called mainstream media used this pretext to
tarnish the Hindus. In December 2004, press reporters
from 40 countries descended upon the Dangs and spread a
misinformation campaign. As a result, the court
restrained the Hindus from conducting any public ceremony
around Christmas in future. Meanwhile, the tide of Hindu
awakening only swelled. Today, Christian conversion
activities have come to a halt not only in Dangs but also
in the surrounding twelve districts.

In 2002, Hindu activists approached the famed Ramayana
kathakar Shri Morari Bapu and told him, "You mesmerise
thousands with Ram Katha. We request you to organize Ram
Katha in Dang wher Shri Raam himself spent some time".
Shri Morari Bapu readily agreed. The tremendous response
overwhelmed Shri Morari. In the course of his speech, he
spontaneously expressed the desire that a formal kumbh be
organized at the spot where Shabari Mata had met Shri
Raam. Shri Morari Bapus desire was taken up as an order
to be implemented. Thus was born the idea of Shabari
kumbh.

Scale of the Shabari Kumbh

Organizing a kumbh in a remote, heavily forested area is
a nightmare as far as logistics is concerned. It requires
steely resolve, meticulous planning and precision to make
the programme a grand success. The 352 villages in Dang
district had no electricity, or roads; the town of Ahwa
is a good 35 km from the proposed site of the kumbh There
are no medical facilities or eateries in the vicinity.
But the famed organizational might of the Rashtriya
Swayamsevak Sangh, Vanavasi Kalyan Ashram, Vishwa Hindu
Parishad and other like-minded organizations is in full
gear. Realizing the importance of such a venture to the
state of Gujarat, the state government of Shri Narendra
Modi has extended full co-operation. Planning started
atleast one and a half years ago. A 250-200 hectare site
has been chosen for the kumbh. The state government has
undertaken construction of roads on a war footing. All
the 352 villages of Dang have got electrification. A
total of 22 check dams have been built on the river that
feeds the Pampa sarovar where the holy bath will take
place. A total of 20 lakh vanavasis reside in an area of
80 km around Dang. A survey of 5000 villages in Gujarat,
Maharashtra, Madhya Pradesh was completed in the initial
phase. Around 30-35 lakh vanavasis were contacted in this
massive exercise. An estimated six lakh Hindus will
attend the kumbh; of these, around two lakh are likely to
stay for all three days. To arrange for their lodging, 40
townships each with a capacity of 5000 people will be
erected. Each township will have 100 workers to look
after various arrangements such as security, food,
medical aid etc. Thus a total of 4000 workers will be
required to look after the arrangements in the townships;
an additional 2000 workers will be involved in other
arrangemets.

About 388 vanavasi janajatis and 137 urban jatis which
are currently facing missionary onslaught will be
represented at the kumbh. Further, dharmacharyas from all
over the country including 800 vanavasi sants will be
attending the kumbh and taking part in the deliberations.

Each participant will be given a locket of his
ishtadevata; Around 20 lakh lockets, 5 lakh Hanuman
chalisa and 5 lakh bhagwa dhwaj will be distributed.

Programme

11 February 2006 Shri Morari Bapu, Swami Satyamitanandji
Giri(Haridwar)
Mahila sammelan to be attended by 70-80000 women, to be
addressed by Sadhvi Shiva Saraswati

12 February 2006 Ma. Shri Sudarshanji, Swami
Avdheshananda of Juna Akhada Yuvak sammelan

13 Februray 2006 Sadhvi Ritambaraji, Shrimad
Shankaracharya of Jyotishpeeth water from sacred rivers
all over Bharat will be poured in the Pampa sarovar

There will be an exhibition of vanavasi freedom-fighters
and heroes as also sixteen vanavasi dance performances,
each of 1-2 hours duration on eight different platforms
during the kumbh.

Budget

As expected, the budget of this kumbh will run into
crores. Even at the rate of Rs. 6 per food plate, the
cost of feeding the kumbh participants daily runs into
lakhs.

What after the kumbh?

The kumbh will provide a boost to the Hindu movement in
Gujarat, Maharashtra and Madhya Pradesh. In particular,
the vanavasi Hindu will get tremendous confidence. The
momentum generated by the kumbh is expected to trigger
the reurn of thousands of Christian vanavasi converts
back to the Hindu fold. A disinformation campaign has
already been started by the so-called mainstream media.
Allegations of damage to the environment are being made.
These are totally baseless; fact is not a single tree has
been cut. This fact has been written by the district
magistrate himself in a letter to the Governor. In fact,
the tourism in this area will receive a boost as the
Gujarat government plans to make this into a full-fledged
tourism spot. Infrastructure in this area has been
completed thanks to the kumbh. Building of 22 check dams
on the local river will ensure uninterrupted water flow
all year around A permanent hospital will come up near
the site of the kumbh which will be devoted mainly to
diseases of women.

What we can do?

Workers in their thousands are required in the
arrangements of the kumbh. We can volunteer to spend 7 or
14 or 30 days in the run up to the kumbh Generous
donations are required to meet the expenses of this
massive event. The success of this event depends on the
active co-operation of all Hindus All donation are exempt
under section 80 G of Income Tax Act. Cheques may be
drawn in the name of Shri Shabri Kumbh Samaroh Aayojan
Samiti. Donations may be sent to RSS Office.

Spread the word of the kumbh amongst friends and
relatives.


Dangs prepared for biggest Hindu event

2/10/2006 10:56:37 AM HK
Source -
http://haindavakeralam.org/PageModule.aspx?PageID=665&SKIN=B

Dangs - All preparations are made in Dangs as one of the
biggest Hindu event – Shabari Kumbh Mela will begin
tomorrow on the banks of Pampa Sarovar.

Tomorrow the Kumbh will begin with Kumbh Snan and Kumbh
Pujan at 0800 hrs, in which thousands of pilgrims will
participate. Six ghats have been erected, covering 2.5 km
area along the Sarovar. It will be followed by Dharma
Sabha, which will be addressed by saints Jagadguru
Shankaracharya Swami Vasudevanand Saraswati (Jyotirmath),
Swami Satyamitranand Giri, Sants Morari Bapu and Asaram
Bapu, Dr Pranav Pandya (Gayatri Parivar), Swami
Awadheshanand Giri (Haridwar), Sadhvi Ritambhara, Sadhvi
Shiva Saraswati and others.

The second day will be dominated by youth, mahila and
sant sammelans.

Gujrat Chief Minister Shri. Narendra Modi, RSS Chief
Shri. K S Sudarshan and VHP leader Shri. Ashok Singhal
are expected to participate in the mela. Union Minister
of state Manikrao Gavit is also expected to attend the
inaugural function.

Over five lakh devotees including thousands of sadhus and
sants and top leaders of all Hindu organizations & BJP
will be turning up for the mega event and take a ritual
dip in holy lake.

Shri. Suresh Kulkarni, Secretary of the Shabari Kumbh
Organising Committee has ruled out the allegations by
some Christian organisation and anti Hindu medias that
during the Kumbha Mela, Hindu organizations are planning
to carry out re-conversions.

''The Kumbh will promote social integration amongst the
Vanvasis and also pave the way for their all-round
development. It will also be a unique event for promotion
of national integration as it will have countrywide
representation of all Scheduled Tribes and Scheduled
Castes,'' said Kailash Sharma, the chairman of the Kumbh
organising committee.

At this Kumbh, the agenda's clear: mobilising tribals for
Hindu jagran 2006-02-11 Published by Hindu Herald
Gathered by hindunet.org

Shabari Kumbh Site, Ahwa (Dangs), February 10: AMID
haphazard last-minute preparations at the picturesque
site surrounded by teak forests, and a seeming lack of
adequate arrangement for an expected crowd of 5 lakh, the
Shabari Kumbh is all about mobilising tribals against an
aggressive missionary campaign to convert them to
Christianity.

The organisers say only Hindu jagran will be discussed,
but the substance of the massive exercise being carried
out under the aegis of RSS-backed Vanvasi Kalyan Ashram
is clear at the entrance to the kumbh site itself. A
board says: 'One Hindu convert means addition of one more
enemy to the nation.'

Joint secretary of the organising committee, Sureshrao
Kulkarni says: ''The Kumbh, beginning Saturday, is about
instilling a sense of identity, self-reliance and self-
confidence in the tribals. Nothing more.''

The mobilisation has been massive and the campaign to the
build-up, a slanted attack on missionary activities in
the tribal belt. The accent of the whole exercise: ''We
want it known forever that tribals are Hindus,'' says an
organiser.

The mood has been pumped up through the element of
jingoism, isolating the small tribal Christian population
in the backward district. However, no disturbance is
expected, given the massive police bandobast. Battalions
have been requisitioned from as far as Delhi and Tamil
Nadu.

A day before the kumbh begins, the Shabari Mandir and the
Pampa Sarovar site - 32 km from Ahwa - saw large tribal
contingents trooping in from neighbouring districts. The
three-day event will see RSS chief K S Sudarshan, Chief
Minister Narendra Modi, VHP chief Ashok Singhal, and
saints like Murari Bapu and Asaram Bapu, address
pilgrims. Modi has been invited as chief guest for the
Saturday inaugural.

A skeptical sadhu, who says this is not the right Kumbh,
a Vanvasi Kalyan Ashram activist selling his anti-
missionary agenda, and a constable turned guide completes
the picture for onlookers at the Pampa Sarovar -the Kumbh
site on Friday. The lake itself is the result of a web of
check dams built over the Purna river, claimed to be the
Pushkarni of the Ramayana. Half-a-kilometre ahead of the
120-feet deep sarovar, four bathing ghats have been
developed for visitors to have a holy dip. Water seems
inadequate to take care of the expected 5 lakh visitors,
prompting organisers to put up boards pleading judicious
use of water. The State Government has chipped in by
providing 100 tanks of 10,000 litre capacity to maintain
drinking water supply.

Though organisers claim all safety precautions have been
taken, a section of the tents meant to house guests
collapsed on Thursday due to strong winds. Shops with LPG
stoves next to the tents can prove dangerous under the
present windy conditions. The kilometre-long single-track
approach road itself can prove a security nightmare for
the police if the expected crowd turns out for the Kumbh.

By the time the kumbh is over, the pressure on resources
at the site might leave it in a state of environmental
disrepair. Though organisers claim all precautions have
been taken, it's highly unlikely that trees have not been
cut; that wildlife has not been disturbed by the build-
up; or resources of an already improverished region have
not been damaged. Depsite a stated ban on the use of
plastic, water bottles and snacks in plastic wrappers
will mean a massive clean-up job later on.

On the sidelines of the kumbh, business activity is
expected to be brisk. This sleepy town with a population
of 1.85 lakh does not plan to lose out on the employment
generated by the three-day event. Tribals have set up
shops and stalls selling anything from sanjivani herbs to
Punjabi food to the latest audio CDs.

For outsiders, however, making living arrangements might
pose a problem as all hotels, rest houses and forest
guest houses have been booked by the State Government for
security purposes.


Sangh call to tribal converts

By Basant Rawat
Source - telegraphindia

Dangs, Gujarat, Feb. 11 - The Sangh parivar's Shabri
Kumbh began here today with a call to tribal Christians
to "return" to the Hindu fold.

With the campaign avoiding the term "reconversion" and
using the label of "homecoming (gharvapasi)", speaker
after speaker spouted vitriol against the practice of
"conversion" by Christian missionaries.

-From Gujarat chief minister Narendra Modi to Ram
kathakar Morari Bapu and Sant Asharam Bapu, everyone on
the dais exhorted the tribals to embrace Hinduism and
warned the missionaries not to convert the "gullible"
tribals.

Inaugurating the Kumbh, Swami Satyanand Giri of Bharat
Mata Mandir, Hardwar, advised his Hindu listeners on how
to win over the tribal Christians.

"A Hindu janjagran (mass awakening) programme should be
held every month in every village. The organisers should
provide free food, like the Sikhs provide to their
people. You should ensure that every house has a Hanuman
Chalisa."

He said Hindu sants and sadhus must sincerely apologise
to the tribals and Dalits who might have converted to
Christianity because they faced discrimination from
Hindus.

The venue was packed with tribals, many of whom came from
outside the state - from neighbouring Maharashtra, Madhya
Pradesh and Rajasthan as well as from faraway Meghalaya
and the Andamans.

Modi scoffed at the "sons of Macaulay" for their failure
to understand the tribals' bond with Shabri Mata, the
daughter of a Bhil king who had offered berries to Ram.

The root of the problem, he said, is that the followers
of a particular religion believe it is superior and its
stipulated path alone leads to salvation (and that) other
religions are inferior, so their followers should be
converted.

Dangs had in the late 1990s witnessed a series of attacks
on Christians' prayer halls in its towns and villages.

Regards,
http://www.hindushakti.tk

End of forwarded message from ***@yahoo.co.in

Jai Maharaj
http://tinyurl.com/a5ljc
http://www.mantra.com/jai
Om Shanti

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PratapTambay
2006-02-12 23:09:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by and/or www.mantra.com/jai (Dr. Jai Maharaj)
Dharma sabha. Sensing danger, Christian missionaries
asked Swamiji, "What brings you here?" The Swami posed
them the same question. We have come here to serve the
people replied the Christian missionaries. "I have come
here to drive away those who have come here to serve"
retorted the Swami. That was the beginning of the Hindu
awakening in the Dangs.
What exactly is wrong with christians serving those who need to be
served?

Why did the swami make this violent statement, unworthy of his
religion?

Can't he win over people by serving them and helping improve their
economic and social status?

How did his statement awaken anyone? Does such awakening have any
meaning?

Awakening in the Indian tradition is to understand ones self-interest
and realize how to persue it without hurting anyone else's
self-interest.

The swami did not do this. He is a fraud and a disgrace to Indian
religious tradition.
Marcus Aurelius
2006-02-12 23:38:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by PratapTambay
Post by and/or www.mantra.com/jai (Dr. Jai Maharaj)
Dharma sabha. Sensing danger, Christian missionaries
asked Swamiji, "What brings you here?" The Swami posed
them the same question. We have come here to serve the
people replied the Christian missionaries. "I have come
here to drive away those who have come here to serve"
retorted the Swami. That was the beginning of the Hindu
awakening in the Dangs.
What exactly is wrong with christians serving those who need to be
served?
The missionaries lied. They came to harvest souls for their own
interests and create religious divisions between people of the area.
The swami merely mocked their dishonesty.
Post by PratapTambay
Why did the swami make this violent statement, unworthy of his
religion?
Mockery is not violence, especially when it is pointed at the
dishonesty of others.
Post by PratapTambay
Can't he win over people by serving them and helping improve their
economic and social status?
"dalit" christians are still poor and treated badly by the "higher
caste" christians. Where is the improvement? Your dishonest arguments
are getting tedious, really.
You think changing a religion causes improvement in social and economic
status?! Where is your evidence from the last 5000 years?
Post by PratapTambay
How did his statement awaken anyone? Does such awakening have any
meaning?
It awakens the poor tribals to the deception being planted upon them by
the missionaries.
Post by PratapTambay
Awakening in the Indian tradition is to understand ones self-interest
and realize how to persue it without hurting anyone else's
self-interest.
The self does not exist in a vacuum. Social cohesion is imperative to
the advancement of all desirable self interests. Your argument will
suit a crook but not a shopkeeper.
Post by PratapTambay
The swami did not do this. He is a fraud and a disgrace to Indian
religious tradition.
You are the fraud. You are a Buddhist pretender who threatens violence.
You are a communal person who preaches preferential treatment of some
people. You are a sympathiser of the british empire. Your allegiance is
not to the Indian nation, but to religious and caste politics. You have
never shown sympathy for the poor in India, unless they belonged to
categories that you wish to advance.

You are a disgraceful communalist who somehow feels righteous in being
communal. You are a disgraceful politician wannabe who somehow finds it
legitimate to divide people along religious or caste lines.

Adi Anant
and/or www.mantra.com/jai (Dr. Jai Maharaj)
2006-02-12 23:54:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Marcus Aurelius
Post by PratapTambay
Post by and/or www.mantra.com/jai (Dr. Jai Maharaj)
Dharma sabha. Sensing danger, Christian missionaries
asked Swamiji, "What brings you here?" The Swami posed
them the same question. We have come here to serve the
people replied the Christian missionaries. "I have come
here to drive away those who have come here to serve"
retorted the Swami. That was the beginning of the Hindu
awakening in the Dangs.
What exactly is wrong with christians serving those who need to be
served?
The missionaries lied. They came to harvest souls for their own
interests and create religious divisions between people of the area.
The swami merely mocked their dishonesty.
Post by PratapTambay
Why did the swami make this violent statement, unworthy of his
religion?
Mockery is not violence, especially when it is pointed at the
dishonesty of others.
Post by PratapTambay
Can't he win over people by serving them and helping improve their
economic and social status?
"dalit" christians are still poor and treated badly by the "higher
caste" christians. Where is the improvement? Your dishonest arguments
are getting tedious, really.
You think changing a religion causes improvement in social and economic
status?! Where is your evidence from the last 5000 years?
Post by PratapTambay
How did his statement awaken anyone? Does such awakening have any
meaning?
It awakens the poor tribals to the deception being planted upon them by
the missionaries.
Post by PratapTambay
Awakening in the Indian tradition is to understand ones self-interest
and realize how to persue it without hurting anyone else's
self-interest.
The self does not exist in a vacuum. Social cohesion is imperative to
the advancement of all desirable self interests. Your argument will
suit a crook but not a shopkeeper.
Post by PratapTambay
The swami did not do this. He is a fraud and a disgrace to Indian
religious tradition.
You are the fraud. You are a Buddhist pretender who threatens violence.
You are a communal person who preaches preferential treatment of some
people. You are a sympathiser of the british empire. Your allegiance is
not to the Indian nation, but to religious and caste politics. You have
never shown sympathy for the poor in India, unless they belonged to
categories that you wish to advance.
You are a disgraceful communalist who somehow feels righteous in being
communal. You are a disgraceful politician wannabe who somehow finds it
legitimate to divide people along religious or caste lines.
Adi Anant
There's ample evidence that Pratap Tambay has launched several Internet
scams to cause people to send their heard-earned money to him.

Jai Maharaj
http://tinyurl.com/a5ljc
http://www.mantra.com/jai
Om Shanti
PratapTambay
2006-02-13 00:21:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Marcus Aurelius
The missionaries lied. They came to harvest souls for their own
interests and create religious divisions between people of the area.
The swami merely mocked their dishonesty.
What is wrong with proselythysing?

If the "shabrikumbh" is ok, then what is wrong with their actions?
Tribals are adults. They can decide for themselves. What gives the
swami the right to drive anyone anywhere?

Why not focus on improving the economical and social status of the
tribals, instead of preventing them from converting?

The money being WASTED on shabrikumbh could have setup a good number of
the tribals in some productive enterprise or could have built a few
good schools.

The christians are responding by dedicating themselves to educating
tribals and lower castes. Their strategy is sound. When will the hindus
respond similarly, instead of this foolish, useless posturing and
noise?

Solve the real problems and stop the noise.
Post by Marcus Aurelius
Post by PratapTambay
Why did the swami make this violent statement, unworthy of his
religion?
Mockery is not violence, especially when it is pointed at the
dishonesty of others.
Who is the swami to drive out anyone? He is free to go to court if he
wants. He should not be making such statements in public.

His dishonesty is worse, because he does nothing to solve the economic
and social issues of the tribals and merely seeks to keep them chained
to hinduism as an impoverished lot.
Post by Marcus Aurelius
Post by PratapTambay
Can't he win over people by serving them and helping improve their
economic and social status?
"dalit" christians are still poor and treated badly by the "higher
caste" christians. Where is the improvement? Your dishonest arguments
are getting tedious, really.
You think changing a religion causes improvement in social and economic
status?! Where is your evidence from the last 5000 years?
Do you have any evidence of hinduism helping dalits (including
tribals)? Both have been systematically exploited for too long and kept
uneducated and chained to bad social and economic structures.

Your partner imem is refusing to respond to my direct confrontation of
his flawed theory on caste.

You can't handle one person. When there are even a few more like
me...what will you do?

Those who read these arguments can decide for themselves. I am not
exactly looking for your certificate of honesty.

Those who took the dalit issue to US and UK were led by dalit
christians. The christians have gotten onto the dalit case rigorously.
The slogans of "hinduism khatre me hai"...sound very much like the
"islam khatre me hai" slogan. Just a few days back...many of you were
boasting that a few dalits converting does'nt affect anyone and now see
the level of scaredness...how much can you guys lie. The churches have
announced that they will admit more dalits here on and they have been
doing that all along. What else do most dalits need. Even a good
education is enought for most to break out of the circle of pain that
they are chained to.
Post by Marcus Aurelius
Post by PratapTambay
How did his statement awaken anyone? Does such awakening have any
meaning?
It awakens the poor tribals to the deception being planted upon them by
the missionaries.
What deception? The missionaries educate. Education liberates.

Provide good education and see what the tribals decide.
Post by Marcus Aurelius
Post by PratapTambay
Awakening in the Indian tradition is to understand ones self-interest
and realize how to persue it without hurting anyone else's
self-interest.
The self does not exist in a vacuum. Social cohesion is imperative to
the advancement of all desirable self interests. Your argument will
suit a crook but not a shopkeeper.
Social cohesion cannot be described in ways suitable to only one group
of people. Samarasta cannot mean passive acceptance of imposed
ignorance. It cannot mean refusal of choice of religion. It cannot mean
dis-respect of the right of tribals to choose for themselves.
Post by Marcus Aurelius
Post by PratapTambay
The swami did not do this. He is a fraud and a disgrace to Indian
religious tradition.
You are the fraud. You are a Buddhist pretender who threatens violence.
I never threatened violence. You keep misunderstanding me
systematically.
Post by Marcus Aurelius
You are a communal person who preaches preferential treatment of some
people.
You are a sympathiser of the british empire.
So was the RSS and the hindu mahasabha. Read history.

Your allegiance is
Post by Marcus Aurelius
not to the Indian nation, but to religious and caste politics.
Do you know who killed the father of this nation? He was a religious
hot-head.

Do you know who voted for the party of that father of the nation? The
dalits.

Do you know who ruled democratically in UP recently? The dalits. It is
our nation.

Minorities should stop ruling us. The microminority brahmins, vaisyas
and kshatriyas should stop claiming priority over other Indians. The
ballot box exposes all their hoaxes.

You have
Post by Marcus Aurelius
never shown sympathy for the poor in India, unless they belonged to
categories that you wish to advance.
There are 350 million dalits in India and there are around the same
number of BPL. Only around 10% dalits are in government or public
sector. More over poverty alone is less oppressive than poverty+caste
oppression.

And anyway, you guys do not have anything generically for the poor.
What pro-poor programmes did BJP run. They kept bothering about urban
upper caste elite. Why should poor of any caste trust RSS and BJP?
Post by Marcus Aurelius
You are a disgraceful communalist who somehow feels righteous in being
communal. You are a disgraceful politician wannabe who somehow finds it
legitimate to divide people along religious or caste lines.
Look who is speaking.
Marcus Aurelius
2006-02-13 01:26:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by PratapTambay
Post by Marcus Aurelius
The missionaries lied. They came to harvest souls for their own
interests and create religious divisions between people of the area.
The swami merely mocked their dishonesty.
What is wrong with proselythysing?
What is wrong with preventing proselytization then? You think that the
tribals should not have a choice?
Post by PratapTambay
If the "shabrikumbh" is ok, then what is wrong with their actions?
Tribals are adults. They can decide for themselves. What gives the
swami the right to drive anyone anywhere?
Who gives you the right to question the rights of the swami? The swami
is a citizen and a member of the majority community. It is his country,
not the missionaries'.
Post by PratapTambay
Why not focus on improving the economical and social status of the
tribals, instead of preventing them from converting?
Did you read the news about the Shabrikumbh? Roads are being built,
construction work being done - all this benefits the tribals. All that
the conversion oriented missionaries give are handfuls of rice. Where
is your brain, idiot?
Post by PratapTambay
The money being WASTED on shabrikumbh could have setup a good number of
the tribals in some productive enterprise or could have built a few
good schools.
Read above. Making Dang a pilgrimage site would help the tribals like
nothing else will. Where is your brain, idiot? Is your ignorance
deliberate?
Post by PratapTambay
The christians are responding by dedicating themselves to educating
tribals and lower castes. Their strategy is sound. When will the hindus
respond similarly, instead of this foolish, useless posturing and
noise?
Hindus' schools educate a far greater number than the missionaries' do.
And they do something that the missionaries cannot - they assimiliate
the tribals into their communities. The missionaries divide people in
order to keep their influence.
What kind of anti-national moron would recommend the missionaries'
tactics?!
Post by PratapTambay
Solve the real problems and stop the noise.
The problems _are_ being solved. So stfu and thank those who gave you a
preferential treatment.
Post by PratapTambay
Post by Marcus Aurelius
Mockery is not violence, especially when it is pointed at the
dishonesty of others.
Who is the swami to drive out anyone? He is free to go to court if he
wants. He should not be making such statements in public.
The swami is a citizen and a member of the majority community. The
missionaries are foreigners and represent a fringe group. The nation
belongs to the majority, with protection for the rights of the
minorities - that is what a democracy means.
If you equate the majority with the minorities, then that is not a
democracy - but a radically different structure.
Post by PratapTambay
His dishonesty is worse, because he does nothing to solve the economic
and social issues of the tribals and merely seeks to keep them chained
to hinduism as an impoverished lot.
The swamis have brought roads and jobs to the area, and they propose to
bring tourist money. And I find it immensely offensive that you use
phrases like "chained to Hinduism" - if you wish to use gutter
language, then I will leave you in the gutter.
Post by PratapTambay
Post by Marcus Aurelius
You think changing a religion causes improvement in social and economic
status?! Where is your evidence from the last 5000 years?
Do you have any evidence of hinduism helping dalits (including
tribals)? Both have been systematically exploited for too long and kept
uneducated and chained to bad social and economic structures.
Free medicine, equal voting rights, free education - all from the
majority Hindu community to their kinfolk. Even you, a Hindu hater, was
given preferential treatment at the expense of some others. THIS is the
structure you are whining against? Show some gratitude, for the sake of
your own conscience.
Post by PratapTambay
You can't handle one person. When there are even a few more like
me...what will you do?
The same way we handle pakis. We have been very gentle with you until
now, but if you persist in being unreasonable and spouting hatred of
Hinduism, then you will be treated as a paki.
Post by PratapTambay
Those who took the dalit issue to US and UK were led by dalit
christians. The christians have gotten onto the dalit case rigorously.
The slogans of "hinduism khatre me hai"...sound very much like the
Sounds like "dalits khatre me haiN"? And yet, the percentage of sc/sts
in Indian population is going up. Wonders will never cease.
Post by PratapTambay
What deception? The missionaries educate. Education liberates.
Educate what? Where is your evidence that their "education" is
beneficial or useful? I am not asking for statements on your
prejudices. I am asking material evidence.
Post by PratapTambay
Provide good education and see what the tribals decide.
Hindu groups educate far, far more tribals, moron.
Post by PratapTambay
Post by Marcus Aurelius
You are a communal person who preaches preferential treatment of some
people.
You are a sympathiser of the british empire.
So was the RSS and the hindu mahasabha. Read history.
And yet, your partner max twit muir accuses the RSS of glorifying
Hitler. Take your pick. Is the RSS pro-british empire or pro-hitler?
You Hindu haters are all the same - you never feel the need to be right
as long as you can defame.
Post by PratapTambay
Your allegiance is
Post by Marcus Aurelius
not to the Indian nation, but to religious and caste politics.
Do you know who killed the father of this nation? He was a religious
hot-head.
Wrong again, idiot. He was a nationalist who hated Gandhi for letting
his homeland get divided. He did it for "secular" reasons.
Post by PratapTambay
Do you know who voted for the party of that father of the nation? The
dalits.
Wrong again, idiot. Gandhi was not a politician. He never ran for an
office. How could he have a "party" then? He favored INC but that is
because he saw no alternative.
Post by PratapTambay
Do you know who ruled democratically in UP recently? The dalits. It is
our nation.
Not if you hate the majority community as an outsider supposedly
"Buddhist" "dalit" living in UK.
Post by PratapTambay
Minorities should stop ruling us. The microminority brahmins, vaisyas
and kshatriyas should stop claiming priority over other Indians. The
ballot box exposes all their hoaxes.
Apparently, it does not expose the hoax of victimhood from people like
you.
Post by PratapTambay
You have
Post by Marcus Aurelius
never shown sympathy for the poor in India, unless they belonged to
categories that you wish to advance.
There are 350 million dalits in India and there are around the same
number of BPL. Only around 10% dalits are in government or public
sector. More over poverty alone is less oppressive than poverty+caste
oppression.
350 million "dalits"? ROTFL.
Is your dishonesty deliberate or by default?
Dishonest representation has helped you a lot before, so I guess you
keep using it.
Post by PratapTambay
And anyway, you guys do not have anything generically for the poor.
What pro-poor programmes did BJP run. They kept bothering about urban
upper caste elite. Why should poor of any caste trust RSS and BJP?
Years since the christian Reddy became the chief minister of AP,
farmers are still committing suicides out of desperation. And Reddy is
giving large concessions to set up a chip-fabrication plant in
Hyderabad.
Tell me, how are cong-I policies different from Naidu's?
The infrastructure projects started by the BJP creates tens of
thousands of jobs all over the country - and they speeded up the
economy. More taxes means more money for the poor.


Adi Anant
PratapTambay
2006-02-13 02:21:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Marcus Aurelius
Post by PratapTambay
What is wrong with proselythysing?
What is wrong with preventing proselytization then? You think that the
tribals should not have a choice?
Preventing proselytization is against the rights of the tribals. The
Hindus are welcome to increase their propaganda. Why should they try to
"drive" anyone anywhere?
Post by Marcus Aurelius
Post by PratapTambay
If the "shabrikumbh" is ok, then what is wrong with their actions?
Tribals are adults. They can decide for themselves. What gives the
swami the right to drive anyone anywhere?
Who gives you the right to question the rights of the swami? The swami
is a citizen and a member of the majority community. It is his country,
not the missionaries'.
The news item did not say that the missionaries had foreign passports.
All religions have freedom. Nobody is "more equal" than others. The
swami has no special rights compared to the missionaries.

Understand democracy...the constitution is very clear on this.
Post by Marcus Aurelius
Did you read the news about the Shabrikumbh? Roads are being built,
construction work being done - all this benefits the tribals. All that
the conversion oriented missionaries give are handfuls of rice. Where
is your brain, idiot?
The news items I read did not say anything about this. But let me ask
the more important question. Why were these people sleeping till now?
Post by Marcus Aurelius
Post by PratapTambay
The money being WASTED on shabrikumbh could have setup a good number of
the tribals in some productive enterprise or could have built a few
good schools.
Read above. Making Dang a pilgrimage site would help the tribals like
nothing else will. Where is your brain, idiot? Is your ignorance
deliberate?
Pilgrimage does not educate. Without education there is no progress.

The upper caste strategy is to keep dalits and tribals ignorant. They
are angry with christians because christians are trying to educate
dalits and tribals. If dalits and tribals become educated, they will
see through the selfish games of the upper caste hindus quickly. That
is why they are attacking the christians throughout India.

Fortunately christians are correctly increasing their focus on
educating dalits and letting them choose the religions. This will
ensure that the upper caste strategy fails.
Post by Marcus Aurelius
Hindus' schools educate a far greater number than the missionaries' do.
And they do something that the missionaries cannot - they assimiliate
the tribals into their communities. The missionaries divide people in
order to keep their influence.
What kind of anti-national moron would recommend the missionaries'
tactics?!
Everyone knows that the christian schools teach better and they
inculcate modern values, while most upper caste hindu schools
consciously try to indoctrinate lower caste hindus with traditional
caste hindu value system and do not give enough representation and
freedom among their teachers to people from lower castes.

The upper castes are killing and threatening christians because the
christians are educating dalits and tribals. This is set to disturb the
upper caste hegemony. That is the real reason for the strong actions
and violent words. That also explains the timing.
Post by Marcus Aurelius
The problems _are_ being solved. So stfu and thank those who gave you a
preferential treatment.
I am very grateful for the benefits I got. But those benefits have
imposed a duty to speak for those who are left behind.

The benefits are being withdrawn in govt and public sectors and not
being given yet in private sectors.
Post by Marcus Aurelius
The swami is a citizen and a member of the majority community. The
missionaries are foreigners and represent a fringe group. The nation
belongs to the majority, with protection for the rights of the
minorities - that is what a democracy means.
If you equate the majority with the minorities, then that is not a
democracy - but a radically different structure.
The missionaries are not foreigners. They are Indian citizens. And all
citizens are equal before law. No swami has more rights than "swamis"
from other religions. All religions are equal for India in law. India
is not a hindu rastra. It is a secular state.

If globals hindus can send money to India to fund VHP, what is wrong
with money coming to christians from global christians?
Post by Marcus Aurelius
The swamis have brought roads and jobs to the area, and they propose to
bring tourist money. And I find it immensely offensive that you use
phrases like "chained to Hinduism" - if you wish to use gutter
language, then I will leave you in the gutter.
1. There is no evidence of any roads and jobs in the news items I am
reading.
2. Prevention of exit from hinduism is by definition "chained to
hinduism"
3. You do not have the choice of leaving me anywhere.

Build good schools and colleges that provide good education rather than
encourage pilgrimage and trishul-touting tribals.
Post by Marcus Aurelius
Post by PratapTambay
Post by Marcus Aurelius
You think changing a religion causes improvement in social and economic
status?! Where is your evidence from the last 5000 years?
Do you have any evidence of hinduism helping dalits (including
tribals)? Both have been systematically exploited for too long and kept
uneducated and chained to bad social and economic structures.
Free medicine, equal voting rights, free education - all from the
majority Hindu community to their kinfolk. Even you, a Hindu hater, was
given preferential treatment at the expense of some others. THIS is the
structure you are whining against? Show some gratitude, for the sake of
your own conscience.
Equal voting rights is not charity

Free education and free medicine is available only in theory. Check the
data and then talk. People do not have enought to eat and hence cannot
send children to school. Most dalits drop out of school.

We acknowledge the small change in the last 50 years, but a lot remains
to address the exploitation over 5000 years. And that is not charity.
IT IS OUR RIGHT.
Post by Marcus Aurelius
Post by PratapTambay
You can't handle one person. When there are even a few more like
me...what will you do?
The same way we handle pakis. We have been very gentle with you until
now, but if you persist in being unreasonable and spouting hatred of
Hinduism, then you will be treated as a paki.
You don't scare me.
Post by Marcus Aurelius
Post by PratapTambay
Those who took the dalit issue to US and UK were led by dalit
christians. The christians have gotten onto the dalit case rigorously.
The slogans of "hinduism khatre me hai"...sound very much like the
Sounds like "dalits khatre me haiN"? And yet, the percentage of sc/sts
in Indian population is going up. Wonders will never cease.
More and more hindus are getting themselves falsely certified as dalits
to corner benefits and thereby deny them to us. And you seek to quote
such numbers to claim that we are doing something wrong. How much more
ignorance can you show? Don't you know the sheer number of such cases
happening?
Post by Marcus Aurelius
Educate what? Where is your evidence that their "education" is
beneficial or useful? I am not asking for statements on your
prejudices. I am asking material evidence.
Most urban Indians boast about convent educations. What is there to
doubt about it?

Dalits prefer them anyday.
Post by Marcus Aurelius
Post by PratapTambay
Provide good education and see what the tribals decide.
Hindu groups educate far, far more tribals, moron.
Then why is the illiteracy and number of well educated tribals so low
till now?
Post by Marcus Aurelius
Post by PratapTambay
Post by Marcus Aurelius
You are a sympathiser of the british empire.
So was the RSS and the hindu mahasabha. Read history.
And yet, your partner max twit muir accuses the RSS of glorifying
Hitler. Take your pick. Is the RSS pro-british empire or pro-hitler?
You Hindu haters are all the same - you never feel the need to be right
as long as you can defame.
Dalits did sympathise with british empire. But they betrayed us. The
truth will come out in the next 2 years.
Post by Marcus Aurelius
Post by PratapTambay
Your allegiance is
Post by Marcus Aurelius
not to the Indian nation, but to religious and caste politics.
Do you know who killed the father of this nation? He was a religious
hot-head.
Wrong again, idiot. He was a nationalist who hated Gandhi for letting
his homeland get divided. He did it for "secular" reasons.
Then why did India hang him? Nobody believes your lies.
Post by Marcus Aurelius
Post by PratapTambay
Do you know who voted for the party of that father of the nation? The
dalits.
Wrong again, idiot. Gandhi was not a politician. He never ran for an
office. How could he have a "party" then? He favored INC but that is
because he saw no alternative.
Gandhi and Congress are one and the same. Your ignorance of India's
history is pathetic.
Post by Marcus Aurelius
Post by PratapTambay
Do you know who ruled democratically in UP recently? The dalits. It is
our nation.
Not if you hate the majority community as an outsider supposedly
"Buddhist" "dalit" living in UK.
Speak that to Mayawati and my dalit brothers in UP if you have guts.
Post by Marcus Aurelius
Post by PratapTambay
And anyway, you guys do not have anything generically for the poor.
What pro-poor programmes did BJP run. They kept bothering about urban
upper caste elite. Why should poor of any caste trust RSS and BJP?
Years since the christian Reddy became the chief minister of AP,
farmers are still committing suicides out of desperation. And Reddy is
giving large concessions to set up a chip-fabrication plant in
Hyderabad.
Tell me, how are cong-I policies different from Naidu's?
The infrastructure projects started by the BJP creates tens of
thousands of jobs all over the country - and they speeded up the
economy. More taxes means more money for the poor.
Why do you have to tell me about congress? Clearly you accept that you
have nothing to offer. If you have nothing to offer to poor in general,
then stop talking about representing them.

You guys represent upper class, upper caste hatred-filled hindus and do
not represent the true India at all.

Regards

Pratap
v***@yahoo.com
2006-02-15 04:49:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by PratapTambay
What is wrong with proselythysing?
Proselythysers don't believe in secularism. They believe their
religion alone is right and others are wrong and have to be converted
to their religion.

fantasy
2006-02-13 04:55:34 UTC
Permalink
Dear Pratap,
Show me place where conversion has improved the economic status of the
people.
Converting people has never helped.All people in this land have been
hindus for more then 5000 years. Just coming 50 years back and saying
that u dont have any indentity.You are christians will help. REgarding
upliftment of vanavasi's,the very reason why BJP is able to penetrate
through this region is because of vanavasi kalyan yojana.
Setting up schoold, hospitals and educating people about the corrupt
missionaries.
We teach people how to catch a fist and not keep them beggining by
giving them free fish daily.The earlier lessons if for life.It makes
them independent. That is precisely people like you don't want.You want
these tribals to be always dependent on you.
It is pity that people like you still exist.
Regarding,who killed gandhiji,court has repeatedly thrashed the cases
againt RSS. The latest vicitm being Sitaram kesari. He died in time or
else he had to pay for his horrible statements.
What is wrong in Hindu conversion. You convert people to christianity
and Hindus convert them back to hindu fold.What is wrong.???

Prakash
Post by PratapTambay
Post by Marcus Aurelius
The missionaries lied. They came to harvest souls for their own
interests and create religious divisions between people of the area.
The swami merely mocked their dishonesty.
What is wrong with proselythysing?
If the "shabrikumbh" is ok, then what is wrong with their actions?
Tribals are adults. They can decide for themselves. What gives the
swami the right to drive anyone anywhere?
Why not focus on improving the economical and social status of the
tribals, instead of preventing them from converting?
The money being WASTED on shabrikumbh could have setup a good number of
the tribals in some productive enterprise or could have built a few
good schools.
The christians are responding by dedicating themselves to educating
tribals and lower castes. Their strategy is sound. When will the hindus
respond similarly, instead of this foolish, useless posturing and
noise?
Solve the real problems and stop the noise.
Post by Marcus Aurelius
Post by PratapTambay
Why did the swami make this violent statement, unworthy of his
religion?
Mockery is not violence, especially when it is pointed at the
dishonesty of others.
Who is the swami to drive out anyone? He is free to go to court if he
wants. He should not be making such statements in public.
His dishonesty is worse, because he does nothing to solve the economic
and social issues of the tribals and merely seeks to keep them chained
to hinduism as an impoverished lot.
Post by Marcus Aurelius
Post by PratapTambay
Can't he win over people by serving them and helping improve their
economic and social status?
"dalit" christians are still poor and treated badly by the "higher
caste" christians. Where is the improvement? Your dishonest arguments
are getting tedious, really.
You think changing a religion causes improvement in social and economic
status?! Where is your evidence from the last 5000 years?
Do you have any evidence of hinduism helping dalits (including
tribals)? Both have been systematically exploited for too long and kept
uneducated and chained to bad social and economic structures.
Your partner imem is refusing to respond to my direct confrontation of
his flawed theory on caste.
You can't handle one person. When there are even a few more like
me...what will you do?
Those who read these arguments can decide for themselves. I am not
exactly looking for your certificate of honesty.
Those who took the dalit issue to US and UK were led by dalit
christians. The christians have gotten onto the dalit case rigorously.
The slogans of "hinduism khatre me hai"...sound very much like the
"islam khatre me hai" slogan. Just a few days back...many of you were
boasting that a few dalits converting does'nt affect anyone and now see
the level of scaredness...how much can you guys lie. The churches have
announced that they will admit more dalits here on and they have been
doing that all along. What else do most dalits need. Even a good
education is enought for most to break out of the circle of pain that
they are chained to.
Post by Marcus Aurelius
Post by PratapTambay
How did his statement awaken anyone? Does such awakening have any
meaning?
It awakens the poor tribals to the deception being planted upon them by
the missionaries.
What deception? The missionaries educate. Education liberates.
Provide good education and see what the tribals decide.
Post by Marcus Aurelius
Post by PratapTambay
Awakening in the Indian tradition is to understand ones self-interest
and realize how to persue it without hurting anyone else's
self-interest.
The self does not exist in a vacuum. Social cohesion is imperative to
the advancement of all desirable self interests. Your argument will
suit a crook but not a shopkeeper.
Social cohesion cannot be described in ways suitable to only one group
of people. Samarasta cannot mean passive acceptance of imposed
ignorance. It cannot mean refusal of choice of religion. It cannot mean
dis-respect of the right of tribals to choose for themselves.
Post by Marcus Aurelius
Post by PratapTambay
The swami did not do this. He is a fraud and a disgrace to Indian
religious tradition.
You are the fraud. You are a Buddhist pretender who threatens violence.
I never threatened violence. You keep misunderstanding me
systematically.
Post by Marcus Aurelius
You are a communal person who preaches preferential treatment of some
people.
You are a sympathiser of the british empire.
So was the RSS and the hindu mahasabha. Read history.
Your allegiance is
Post by Marcus Aurelius
not to the Indian nation, but to religious and caste politics.
Do you know who killed the father of this nation? He was a religious
hot-head.
Do you know who voted for the party of that father of the nation? The
dalits.
Do you know who ruled democratically in UP recently? The dalits. It is
our nation.
Minorities should stop ruling us. The microminority brahmins, vaisyas
and kshatriyas should stop claiming priority over other Indians. The
ballot box exposes all their hoaxes.
You have
Post by Marcus Aurelius
never shown sympathy for the poor in India, unless they belonged to
categories that you wish to advance.
There are 350 million dalits in India and there are around the same
number of BPL. Only around 10% dalits are in government or public
sector. More over poverty alone is less oppressive than poverty+caste
oppression.
And anyway, you guys do not have anything generically for the poor.
What pro-poor programmes did BJP run. They kept bothering about urban
upper caste elite. Why should poor of any caste trust RSS and BJP?
Post by Marcus Aurelius
You are a disgraceful communalist who somehow feels righteous in being
communal. You are a disgraceful politician wannabe who somehow finds it
legitimate to divide people along religious or caste lines.
Look who is speaking.
PratapTambay
2006-02-13 08:51:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by fantasy
Dear Pratap,
Show me place where conversion has improved the economic status of the
people.
Dalits is the best example. While there are people who have relapsed
into hindu beliefs and practices while remaining externally buddhists,
many have become hatred-free, self-dependent Indians.

The brahminic press avoids reporting the successes of such conversions
to prevent further conversions due to it. But dalits are increasingly
not getting misled.
Post by fantasy
Converting people has never helped.All people in this land have been
hindus for more then 5000 years.
I do not agree that all Indians were hindu for 5000 years. A very large
part of Indian history was buddhist. All the key symbols of India are
buddhist and represent that glorious part of Indian history. I do not
deny that there were glorious elements in the hindu past, but to say
that everything and everyone was hindu is totally wrong.

Let us explicitly talk Indian history over the last 5000 years if you
want and validate each other claims. I am willing to argue Indian
history with references to literature and evidence.

Just coming 50 years back and saying
Post by fantasy
that u dont have any indentity.You are christians will help.
I have no idea what you mean. There have been some christians in India
since atleast 1000 years ago and perhaps even 4th centure AD. Anyway as
per my reading, RSS seems perfectly fine with conversions to sikhism,
jainism, buddhism. There are hindus who have understood the conversion
issue better and recognize the benefits of exit to these religions in
terms of immediate curing of many problems.

More importantly. I am a buddhist. I am support the right of christians
to proselythise and of SC/STs to choose. Dr. Ambedkar guides the
choices of most educated dalits. If hindu's were to educate the dalits,
they will choose Dr. Ambedkars choice. But hindu's do not do this. They
merely focus on preventing conversions.

REgarding
Post by fantasy
upliftment of vanavasi's,the very reason why BJP is able to penetrate
through this region is because of vanavasi kalyan yojana.
Setting up schoold, hospitals and educating people about the corrupt
missionaries.
We teach people how to catch a fist and not keep them beggining by
giving them free fish daily.The earlier lessons if for life.It makes
them independent. That is precisely people like you don't want.You want
these tribals to be always dependent on you.
It is pity that people like you still exist.
No tribal is dependent on me.

If you or someone is making tribals self-dependent in thinking, speech
and action and help them live and develop in harmony with other Indias,
I wholeheartedly support and encourage him/her. And I will do this
irrespective of religious orientation as long as there is no pressure
to choosing a specific religion.
Post by fantasy
Regarding,who killed gandhiji,court has repeatedly thrashed the cases
againt RSS.
There is no doubt among people that Nathuram Godse belonged to the
extreme school of thought which runs among RSS and Hindu mahasabha.
Please note and observe that I never said that there was nothing right
about that school.

The latest vicitm being Sitaram kesari. He died in time or
Post by fantasy
else he had to pay for his horrible statements.
What is the objective of this statement? It sounds like a threat.
Silencing people through threats is not a sign of democratic values.
And that too, please note and observe that I never said that there was
nothing right about that school. If you still want to threaten, go
right ahead. It is becoming too common to threaten people like me who
are speaking out.
Post by fantasy
What is wrong in Hindu conversion. You convert people to christianity
and Hindus convert them back to hindu fold.What is wrong.???
I see nothing wrong with re-conversions. I see nothing wrong with
hindu's proselethysing to non-hindu's. My concern is about
1. Violence against christians
2. Preventing exercise of choice by adult dalits
i***@comcast.net
2006-02-13 08:21:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by PratapTambay
Post by Marcus Aurelius
The missionaries lied. They came to harvest souls for their own
interests and create religious divisions between people of the area.
The swami merely mocked their dishonesty.
What is wrong with proselythysing?
It creates communal disharmony and divisions and ill-will among
religions.
In a democratic country, go try to prosleytise people against
democracy; in a capitalist nation, go try to prosleytise for communism;
in communist nation, go try to proleytise against communism; in an
Islamic nation, go try to prosetise against islam - I dare you - and
see the wrath of those systems, of people living in those systems.
Post by PratapTambay
If the "shabrikumbh" is ok, then what is wrong with their actions?
Tribals are adults. They can decide for themselves. What gives the
swami the right to drive anyone anywhere?
Shabrikumbh is an attempt to create awareness and education about the
challenges and dangers - why feel threatened by it? If they are adults
and able to decide for themselves, than why worry about shabrikumbh -
it should not be able to any harm adults anyway.
Post by PratapTambay
Why not focus on improving the economical and social status of the
tribals, instead of preventing them from converting?
One has to prove that conversion improves economic or social status and
serves nation's best interests - if not, than it is better to expose
the con-game. One can't be allowed to exploit the vulnerables for
political aims that seek worsen the economic and social condition of
whole nation. If prevailing political paradigm is not improving the
economic and social condtions, one has to convert that political
paradigm and not seek to reinforce and perpetuate it by religious
conversions.
Post by PratapTambay
The money being WASTED on shabrikumbh could have setup a good number of
the tribals in some productive enterprise or could have built a few
good schools.
Who says vhp and rss are not doing that already? If constitutional
restrictions and discriminations against hindus being able to run
educational institutions are removed, they can do even more. Cultural
organizations are good at cultural emancipation - and that is what they
are supposed to do. Mela attract lakhs of people and spending - the
whole region benefits from influx of people and spending. Only people
who are parasites and seek handouts can not take any advantage of any
opportunity.
Post by PratapTambay
The christians are responding by dedicating themselves to educating
tribals and lower castes.
Why do they love them so much when they have no such love for the poors
in their christdoms? The chief opposition to universal education,
public schooling, affirmative action, welfare state in west comes
mainly from xian missionaries and evangicals - same guys who run around
the non-xian nations claiming to champion them. They are merely
harvesting souls for xianization and eventual occupation by decimating
the locals.

Their strategy is sound. When will the hindus
Post by PratapTambay
respond similarly, instead of this foolish, useless posturing and
noise?
Who says HIndu organizations dont? RSS/VHP run thousands of welfare and
educational programs, on much bigger scale than missionaries.

Ideally, welfare and education should be a government's function. If it
has to rely on missionaries, than it is not doing its job for which
people pay ample taxes. Psecular state has outsourced its role to
missionaries in exchange for their political support to psecular state
- a criminal political nexus exists between the two. It has been using
destructive ideologies like socialism and communism to rob the
decentralized support systems and preying upon people who are left poor
and vulnerable - harnessing their frustration and anger to further
disenfrenchise hindus.
Post by PratapTambay
Solve the real problems and stop the noise.
You have to elect right ideology, right politicians, right policies to
solve the problems. Unfortunately, they can not come to power because
wrong ideologies, wrong politicians, wrong policies have been able to
wage a bloody war on nation and its people, and they know how to divide
and rule.
Post by PratapTambay
Post by Marcus Aurelius
Post by PratapTambay
Why did the swami make this violent statement, unworthy of his
religion?
Mockery is not violence, especially when it is pointed at the
dishonesty of others.
Who is the swami to drive out anyone? He is free to go to court if he
wants. He should not be making such statements in public.
Its a free country. Take him to court if you think he did any thing
illigal.
Post by PratapTambay
His dishonesty is worse, because he does nothing to solve the economic
and social issues of the tribals and merely seeks to keep them chained
to hinduism as an impoverished lot.
So you want tribals to give up their culture, their way of life. you
think their culture is a chain around their neck. You think they have
no freedom and right to propogate their tribal culture. They are
impoverished in your view because they want to adhere to their tribal
culture. You see their social salvation in their assimilation into
modern, western, urban, materialistic culture. Thus, conversion is the
only solution you offer - Their salvation lies in coversion from their
culture. You want to deculturize them in order to add them to the rank
of dalits, so you can wage politics of producing even more
decullturised and impoverished dalits - so some day, you can fulfill
your ambition of creating dalitstan. You know. Swami understands your
politics very well.
Post by PratapTambay
Post by Marcus Aurelius
Post by PratapTambay
Can't he win over people by serving them and helping improve their
economic and social status?
"dalit" christians are still poor and treated badly by the "higher
caste" christians. Where is the improvement? Your dishonest arguments
are getting tedious, really.
You think changing a religion causes improvement in social and economic
status?! Where is your evidence from the last 5000 years?
Do you have any evidence of hinduism helping dalits (including
tribals)?
Go talk to vanvasi kalyan ashram people. They will show you what kind
of programs they do to help tribals and other disadvantaged hindus.
Large number of volunteers of bjp, vhp, rss, bajrang dal etc come
from them and so do large number of votes for BJP.

Both have been systematically exploited for too long and kept
Post by PratapTambay
uneducated and chained to bad social and economic structures.
That is what dalitism has done and continues to do. It refuses
culturization and assimilation and has joined hands with every
victimizing, exploitive, impoverishing. prosleytizing, enemy forces
around world.
Post by PratapTambay
Your partner imem is refusing to respond to my direct confrontation of
his flawed theory on caste.
I have already stated what I wanted to say on that subject. I care not
running around your twisted propaganda built on lies and spins. It is
not my job to educate you - i post for the benefit of this forum so
that it has correct perspective. Lots of your posts do not deserve any
response and they don't get any. You stand thoroughly exposed and most
people know it by now
Post by PratapTambay
You can't handle one person. When there are even a few more like
me...what will you do?
Why, is there a combat going on? Facts, truth, Ideas, lies, propaganda,
spins remain what they are no matter who echos them and how many people
echo them. In the realm of ideas and perceptions, their merit wins and
not their multiplicity.
Post by PratapTambay
Those who read these arguments can decide for themselves. I am not
exactly looking for your certificate of honesty.
Those who took the dalit issue to US and UK were led by dalit
christians. The christians have gotten onto the dalit case rigorously.
Dalitism is their political baby, they are the mothering force. They
milk it anytime they want to.
Post by PratapTambay
The slogans of "hinduism khatre me hai"...sound very much like the
"islam khatre me hai" slogan.
What is wrong with it? Its a battle cry for unity, attention and focus
on dangers. Don't dalits go around the world crying dalits are
persecuted and so do xians? You have problems when hindus do that.

Just a few days back...many of you were
Post by PratapTambay
boasting that a few dalits converting does'nt affect anyone and now see
the level of scaredness...how much can you guys lie.
People convert all the time out of religious convictions. It is when
conversion are used for political blackmail, sought by exploiting
socio-economic vulnerabilities that people begin to object. People
would overlook the conversion if it helped the socio-economic
conditions, but it does not, instead, it fills the convert with even
more bitterness and hate, and parasitedness. Mostly, it deculturizes
and denationalizes them and create a fifth column doing bidding for
every anti-india and anti-hindu forces.

The churches have
Post by PratapTambay
announced that they will admit more dalits here on and they have been
doing that all along. What else do most dalits need. Even a good
education is enought for most to break out of the circle of pain that
they are chained to.
Why are ambedkarite budhists doing nothing such that missionaries have
to exert so much to do job that ambedkarite champions ought to be
doing? Or they know only how to preach and waste money on ambedkar
statutes. By now, Indian reservation system should have produced
millions of educated dalits - where are they? WHy are they doing
nothing to uplift their fellow brothers by their own efforts - why
can't they emulate missionaries rather than leaving them at mercies of
handouts from government and non-dalits?
Post by PratapTambay
Post by Marcus Aurelius
Post by PratapTambay
How did his statement awaken anyone? Does such awakening have any
meaning?
It awakens the poor tribals to the deception being planted upon them by
the missionaries.
What deception? The missionaries educate. Education liberates.
How come they don't feel liberated yet? They still seek reservations in
every spehere. Even xian converts are clamoring for reservations.
Post by PratapTambay
Provide good education and see what the tribals decide.
Post by Marcus Aurelius
Post by PratapTambay
Awakening in the Indian tradition is to understand ones self-interest
and realize how to persue it without hurting anyone else's
self-interest.
The self does not exist in a vacuum. Social cohesion is imperative to
the advancement of all desirable self interests. Your argument will
suit a crook but not a shopkeeper.
Social cohesion cannot be described in ways suitable to only one group
of people. Samarasta cannot mean passive acceptance of imposed
ignorance. It cannot mean refusal of choice of religion.
It cannot mean
Post by PratapTambay
dis-respect of the right of tribals to choose for themselves.
Tribals are free to adhere to their culture as they have been doing it
for ages, of their own freewill. BUt you don't like that. You want to
force them to choose other religions and give up their culture. You are
demanding right to convert them from their culture. You are hiding
behind people who convert and give up their culture and you have no use
for rights of those who seek to adhere and preserve their ancient
culture.
Post by PratapTambay
Post by Marcus Aurelius
Post by PratapTambay
The swami did not do this. He is a fraud and a disgrace to Indian
religious tradition.
You are the fraud. You are a Buddhist pretender who threatens violence.
I never threatened violence. You keep misunderstanding me
systematically.
Post by Marcus Aurelius
You are a communal person who preaches preferential treatment of some
people.
You are a sympathiser of the british empire.
So was the RSS and the hindu mahasabha. Read history.
They never were. We already know how you read history.
Post by PratapTambay
Your allegiance is
Post by Marcus Aurelius
not to the Indian nation, but to religious and caste politics.
Do you know who killed the father of this nation? He was a religious
hot-head.
He kiiled father of partition, father of pakistan. Gandhi did not
create bharat that is India, mother to hindus. He fucked mother india.
Lakhs of hindus were killed because of his irresponsible criminal
politics. Why is his life more valuable than millions of lives lost due
to him? Look at it another way. Who politically benefitted the most
from murder of gandhi. Certtainly not hindus. It was Nehruite
socialists who benefitted the most politically, ideologically and it
was anti-hinduism that got weded to secularism - the same forces that
had played no mean role in parition and bloody aftermath whose backlash
made gandhi a casualty.
Post by PratapTambay
Do you know who voted for the party of that father of the nation? The
dalits.
And they have been doing it ever since and yet they keep blaming
everybody but their political choices.
Post by PratapTambay
Do you know who ruled democratically in UP recently? The dalits. It is
our nation.
You got to take credit for all problems faced by dalits in UP too. If
you rule and can't solve your won problems, blame rests on you and not
others.
Post by PratapTambay
Minorities should stop ruling us. The microminority brahmins, vaisyas
and kshatriyas should stop claiming priority over other Indians. The
ballot box exposes all their hoaxes.
At caste level, every hindu is a minority. They don't get priority over
anybody as they are powerless minorities - whatever they are able to
achieve in spite of their minority status in politics is product of
their own hard work and merit. People they vote for rarely get elected.
They don't get any benefit of reservation. They help themselves. Of all
the castes, most brahmins tend to be the most impovished - but they
value education and intellect - so many of them are able to succeed in
secular fields.
Post by PratapTambay
You have
Post by Marcus Aurelius
never shown sympathy for the poor in India, unless they belonged to
categories that you wish to advance.
There are 350 million dalits in India and there are around the same
number of BPL. Only around 10% dalits are in government or public
sector.
There are more cows than dalits in india and i see none in government.
That is not fair.

More over poverty alone is less oppressive than poverty+caste
Post by PratapTambay
oppression.
Caste can alliviate poverty if caste becomes a mutual support system
for caste members - many castes have suceeded in that endevor. ALl one
has to do is to emulate what other sucessful castes are doing and
incorporate the ethics of helping each other. It is those who are
uprooted from self-help or mutual-help support system that can not
handle poverty - as government support system is also absent to come to
their rescue. To decimate caste-based support system before government
is in a position to assume that role is criminal. It has destituted
millions of people upon whom missionaries and dalitism prey upon and
pose as sole savours.
Post by PratapTambay
And anyway, you guys do not have anything generically for the poor.
What pro-poor programmes did BJP run. They kept bothering about urban
upper caste elite. Why should poor of any caste trust RSS and BJP?
Poverty and riches are not matter of programs or handouts by
government. All that government can do is to create healthy environment
where wealth can be easily created by productive efforts of its
citizens. Wealth is created by individuals and not by government. It
is upto individuals to create wealth and how much. Those who wait for
government to do something for ever remain waiting for miracles.
Post by PratapTambay
Post by Marcus Aurelius
You are a disgraceful communalist who somehow feels righteous in being
communal. You are a disgraceful politician wannabe who somehow finds it
legitimate to divide people along religious or caste lines.
Look who is speaking.
PratapTambay
2006-02-13 08:53:55 UTC
Permalink
Imem,

I refuse to respond to your postings till you respond to the post where
I have confronted your theory of caste.
Post by i***@comcast.net
Post by PratapTambay
Post by Marcus Aurelius
The missionaries lied. They came to harvest souls for their own
interests and create religious divisions between people of the area.
The swami merely mocked their dishonesty.
What is wrong with proselythysing?
It creates communal disharmony and divisions and ill-will among
religions.
In a democratic country, go try to prosleytise people against
democracy; in a capitalist nation, go try to prosleytise for communism;
in communist nation, go try to proleytise against communism; in an
Islamic nation, go try to prosetise against islam - I dare you - and
see the wrath of those systems, of people living in those systems.
Post by PratapTambay
If the "shabrikumbh" is ok, then what is wrong with their actions?
Tribals are adults. They can decide for themselves. What gives the
swami the right to drive anyone anywhere?
Shabrikumbh is an attempt to create awareness and education about the
challenges and dangers - why feel threatened by it? If they are adults
and able to decide for themselves, than why worry about shabrikumbh -
it should not be able to any harm adults anyway.
Post by PratapTambay
Why not focus on improving the economical and social status of the
tribals, instead of preventing them from converting?
One has to prove that conversion improves economic or social status and
serves nation's best interests - if not, than it is better to expose
the con-game. One can't be allowed to exploit the vulnerables for
political aims that seek worsen the economic and social condition of
whole nation. If prevailing political paradigm is not improving the
economic and social condtions, one has to convert that political
paradigm and not seek to reinforce and perpetuate it by religious
conversions.
Post by PratapTambay
The money being WASTED on shabrikumbh could have setup a good number of
the tribals in some productive enterprise or could have built a few
good schools.
Who says vhp and rss are not doing that already? If constitutional
restrictions and discriminations against hindus being able to run
educational institutions are removed, they can do even more. Cultural
organizations are good at cultural emancipation - and that is what they
are supposed to do. Mela attract lakhs of people and spending - the
whole region benefits from influx of people and spending. Only people
who are parasites and seek handouts can not take any advantage of any
opportunity.
Post by PratapTambay
The christians are responding by dedicating themselves to educating
tribals and lower castes.
Why do they love them so much when they have no such love for the poors
in their christdoms? The chief opposition to universal education,
public schooling, affirmative action, welfare state in west comes
mainly from xian missionaries and evangicals - same guys who run around
the non-xian nations claiming to champion them. They are merely
harvesting souls for xianization and eventual occupation by decimating
the locals.
Their strategy is sound. When will the hindus
Post by PratapTambay
respond similarly, instead of this foolish, useless posturing and
noise?
Who says HIndu organizations dont? RSS/VHP run thousands of welfare and
educational programs, on much bigger scale than missionaries.
Ideally, welfare and education should be a government's function. If it
has to rely on missionaries, than it is not doing its job for which
people pay ample taxes. Psecular state has outsourced its role to
missionaries in exchange for their political support to psecular state
- a criminal political nexus exists between the two. It has been using
destructive ideologies like socialism and communism to rob the
decentralized support systems and preying upon people who are left poor
and vulnerable - harnessing their frustration and anger to further
disenfrenchise hindus.
Post by PratapTambay
Solve the real problems and stop the noise.
You have to elect right ideology, right politicians, right policies to
solve the problems. Unfortunately, they can not come to power because
wrong ideologies, wrong politicians, wrong policies have been able to
wage a bloody war on nation and its people, and they know how to divide
and rule.
Post by PratapTambay
Post by Marcus Aurelius
Post by PratapTambay
Why did the swami make this violent statement, unworthy of his
religion?
Mockery is not violence, especially when it is pointed at the
dishonesty of others.
Who is the swami to drive out anyone? He is free to go to court if he
wants. He should not be making such statements in public.
Its a free country. Take him to court if you think he did any thing
illigal.
Post by PratapTambay
His dishonesty is worse, because he does nothing to solve the economic
and social issues of the tribals and merely seeks to keep them chained
to hinduism as an impoverished lot.
So you want tribals to give up their culture, their way of life. you
think their culture is a chain around their neck. You think they have
no freedom and right to propogate their tribal culture. They are
impoverished in your view because they want to adhere to their tribal
culture. You see their social salvation in their assimilation into
modern, western, urban, materialistic culture. Thus, conversion is the
only solution you offer - Their salvation lies in coversion from their
culture. You want to deculturize them in order to add them to the rank
of dalits, so you can wage politics of producing even more
decullturised and impoverished dalits - so some day, you can fulfill
your ambition of creating dalitstan. You know. Swami understands your
politics very well.
Post by PratapTambay
Post by Marcus Aurelius
Post by PratapTambay
Can't he win over people by serving them and helping improve their
economic and social status?
"dalit" christians are still poor and treated badly by the "higher
caste" christians. Where is the improvement? Your dishonest arguments
are getting tedious, really.
You think changing a religion causes improvement in social and economic
status?! Where is your evidence from the last 5000 years?
Do you have any evidence of hinduism helping dalits (including
tribals)?
Go talk to vanvasi kalyan ashram people. They will show you what kind
of programs they do to help tribals and other disadvantaged hindus.
Large number of volunteers of bjp, vhp, rss, bajrang dal etc come
from them and so do large number of votes for BJP.
Both have been systematically exploited for too long and kept
Post by PratapTambay
uneducated and chained to bad social and economic structures.
That is what dalitism has done and continues to do. It refuses
culturization and assimilation and has joined hands with every
victimizing, exploitive, impoverishing. prosleytizing, enemy forces
around world.
Post by PratapTambay
Your partner imem is refusing to respond to my direct confrontation of
his flawed theory on caste.
I have already stated what I wanted to say on that subject. I care not
running around your twisted propaganda built on lies and spins. It is
not my job to educate you - i post for the benefit of this forum so
that it has correct perspective. Lots of your posts do not deserve any
response and they don't get any. You stand thoroughly exposed and most
people know it by now
Post by PratapTambay
You can't handle one person. When there are even a few more like
me...what will you do?
Why, is there a combat going on? Facts, truth, Ideas, lies, propaganda,
spins remain what they are no matter who echos them and how many people
echo them. In the realm of ideas and perceptions, their merit wins and
not their multiplicity.
Post by PratapTambay
Those who read these arguments can decide for themselves. I am not
exactly looking for your certificate of honesty.
Those who took the dalit issue to US and UK were led by dalit
christians. The christians have gotten onto the dalit case rigorously.
Dalitism is their political baby, they are the mothering force. They
milk it anytime they want to.
Post by PratapTambay
The slogans of "hinduism khatre me hai"...sound very much like the
"islam khatre me hai" slogan.
What is wrong with it? Its a battle cry for unity, attention and focus
on dangers. Don't dalits go around the world crying dalits are
persecuted and so do xians? You have problems when hindus do that.
Just a few days back...many of you were
Post by PratapTambay
boasting that a few dalits converting does'nt affect anyone and now see
the level of scaredness...how much can you guys lie.
People convert all the time out of religious convictions. It is when
conversion are used for political blackmail, sought by exploiting
socio-economic vulnerabilities that people begin to object. People
would overlook the conversion if it helped the socio-economic
conditions, but it does not, instead, it fills the convert with even
more bitterness and hate, and parasitedness. Mostly, it deculturizes
and denationalizes them and create a fifth column doing bidding for
every anti-india and anti-hindu forces.
The churches have
Post by PratapTambay
announced that they will admit more dalits here on and they have been
doing that all along. What else do most dalits need. Even a good
education is enought for most to break out of the circle of pain that
they are chained to.
Why are ambedkarite budhists doing nothing such that missionaries have
to exert so much to do job that ambedkarite champions ought to be
doing? Or they know only how to preach and waste money on ambedkar
statutes. By now, Indian reservation system should have produced
millions of educated dalits - where are they? WHy are they doing
nothing to uplift their fellow brothers by their own efforts - why
can't they emulate missionaries rather than leaving them at mercies of
handouts from government and non-dalits?
Post by PratapTambay
Post by Marcus Aurelius
Post by PratapTambay
How did his statement awaken anyone? Does such awakening have any
meaning?
It awakens the poor tribals to the deception being planted upon them by
the missionaries.
What deception? The missionaries educate. Education liberates.
How come they don't feel liberated yet? They still seek reservations in
every spehere. Even xian converts are clamoring for reservations.
Post by PratapTambay
Provide good education and see what the tribals decide.
Post by Marcus Aurelius
Post by PratapTambay
Awakening in the Indian tradition is to understand ones self-interest
and realize how to persue it without hurting anyone else's
self-interest.
The self does not exist in a vacuum. Social cohesion is imperative to
the advancement of all desirable self interests. Your argument will
suit a crook but not a shopkeeper.
Social cohesion cannot be described in ways suitable to only one group
of people. Samarasta cannot mean passive acceptance of imposed
ignorance. It cannot mean refusal of choice of religion.
It cannot mean
Post by PratapTambay
dis-respect of the right of tribals to choose for themselves.
Tribals are free to adhere to their culture as they have been doing it
for ages, of their own freewill. BUt you don't like that. You want to
force them to choose other religions and give up their culture. You are
demanding right to convert them from their culture. You are hiding
behind people who convert and give up their culture and you have no use
for rights of those who seek to adhere and preserve their ancient
culture.
Post by PratapTambay
Post by Marcus Aurelius
Post by PratapTambay
The swami did not do this. He is a fraud and a disgrace to Indian
religious tradition.
You are the fraud. You are a Buddhist pretender who threatens violence.
I never threatened violence. You keep misunderstanding me
systematically.
Post by Marcus Aurelius
You are a communal person who preaches preferential treatment of some
people.
You are a sympathiser of the british empire.
So was the RSS and the hindu mahasabha. Read history.
They never were. We already know how you read history.
Post by PratapTambay
Your allegiance is
Post by Marcus Aurelius
not to the Indian nation, but to religious and caste politics.
Do you know who killed the father of this nation? He was a religious
hot-head.
He kiiled father of partition, father of pakistan. Gandhi did not
create bharat that is India, mother to hindus. He fucked mother india.
Lakhs of hindus were killed because of his irresponsible criminal
politics. Why is his life more valuable than millions of lives lost due
to him? Look at it another way. Who politically benefitted the most
from murder of gandhi. Certtainly not hindus. It was Nehruite
socialists who benefitted the most politically, ideologically and it
was anti-hinduism that got weded to secularism - the same forces that
had played no mean role in parition and bloody aftermath whose backlash
made gandhi a casualty.
Post by PratapTambay
Do you know who voted for the party of that father of the nation? The
dalits.
And they have been doing it ever since and yet they keep blaming
everybody but their political choices.
Post by PratapTambay
Do you know who ruled democratically in UP recently? The dalits. It is
our nation.
You got to take credit for all problems faced by dalits in UP too. If
you rule and can't solve your won problems, blame rests on you and not
others.
Post by PratapTambay
Minorities should stop ruling us. The microminority brahmins, vaisyas
and kshatriyas should stop claiming priority over other Indians. The
ballot box exposes all their hoaxes.
At caste level, every hindu is a minority. They don't get priority over
anybody as they are powerless minorities - whatever they are able to
achieve in spite of their minority status in politics is product of
their own hard work and merit. People they vote for rarely get elected.
They don't get any benefit of reservation. They help themselves. Of all
the castes, most brahmins tend to be the most impovished - but they
value education and intellect - so many of them are able to succeed in
secular fields.
Post by PratapTambay
You have
Post by Marcus Aurelius
never shown sympathy for the poor in India, unless they belonged to
categories that you wish to advance.
There are 350 million dalits in India and there are around the same
number of BPL. Only around 10% dalits are in government or public
sector.
There are more cows than dalits in india and i see none in government.
That is not fair.
More over poverty alone is less oppressive than poverty+caste
Post by PratapTambay
oppression.
Caste can alliviate poverty if caste becomes a mutual support system
for caste members - many castes have suceeded in that endevor. ALl one
has to do is to emulate what other sucessful castes are doing and
incorporate the ethics of helping each other. It is those who are
uprooted from self-help or mutual-help support system that can not
handle poverty - as government support system is also absent to come to
their rescue. To decimate caste-based support system before government
is in a position to assume that role is criminal. It has destituted
millions of people upon whom missionaries and dalitism prey upon and
pose as sole savours.
Post by PratapTambay
And anyway, you guys do not have anything generically for the poor.
What pro-poor programmes did BJP run. They kept bothering about urban
upper caste elite. Why should poor of any caste trust RSS and BJP?
Poverty and riches are not matter of programs or handouts by
government. All that government can do is to create healthy environment
where wealth can be easily created by productive efforts of its
citizens. Wealth is created by individuals and not by government. It
is upto individuals to create wealth and how much. Those who wait for
government to do something for ever remain waiting for miracles.
Post by PratapTambay
Post by Marcus Aurelius
You are a disgraceful communalist who somehow feels righteous in being
communal. You are a disgraceful politician wannabe who somehow finds it
legitimate to divide people along religious or caste lines.
Look who is speaking.
d***@gmail.com
2006-02-13 09:46:04 UTC
Permalink
Why do Christians and Islamic people have to convert people. why cant
they leave people as they are.
a***@hotmail.com
2006-02-13 15:25:49 UTC
Permalink
I am sure you have all heard of Ekal Vidyalya movement run by the same
people behind the Shabari Kumbh Mela. http://www.ekal.org . They have
set up over 15,000 school in Tribal Districts of India. They educate
nearly 500,000 or half a million children every day. If that is not
serving the tribal then I don't know what it is. Other NGOs can't even
dream of such numbers.

You can check out the vide of their work here:
http://www.youtube.com/results?search=ekal&search_type=search_videos&search=Search

S Jan
Post by d***@gmail.com
Why do Christians and Islamic people have to convert people. why cant
they leave people as they are.
PratapTambay
2006-02-13 15:59:31 UTC
Permalink
Hi Abhi,

This is excellent work. I liked the site too. Long ago, I used to visit
Ram Krishna Mission in Bangalore and even went with them on social work
tours. Vivekananda was an admirable person and the Rama Krishna Mission
is admirable for its zeal in heavy lifting social work among the down
trodden. People like Vivekananda and Swami Agnivesh are clearly trying
hard to rid hindu religious practice of its many ills. They represent
what is good about hinduism better than the thoughts, words and actions
of many other hindus who are not only bad hindus but also bad human
beings. The only problem dalits have with such people is that such
people do not have any choice to "request" non-dalits to grant dalits
their rights. This is de-meaning to dalits, since their rights are not
somebody's charity. Hinduisms ills are not the responsbility of dalits.
Hence dalits do not want to "request" for their own rights, because
"requests" can be ignored or take lot more time to be granted. Dalits
want to use the constitution, ballot boxes, cultural initiatives,
literature, etc to enforce their rights and not "beg" for them. The
ends of progressive hindus and of dalits are almost same. The different
is in means and the reason for the difference in means is traceable to
the nature of the protagonists.

With the limited information I have about ekal, it seems a great
institution. After more investigation, I would personally be happy to
contribute to organisations like it. But the relationship with Shabri
Kumbh is not clear at all. Those associated with the organisers of
Shabri Kumbh seem to have contributed some volunteers to Ekal. The
objective of Shabri Kumbh is clearly lot more political and is
organized by sectarian hindus rather than the relative liberal hindus
who seem to be behind Ekal.

There is a lot that is right about ekal. This cannot be said in terms
of the ends and means of ShabriKumbh.

Regards

Pratap
Post by a***@hotmail.com
I am sure you have all heard of Ekal Vidyalya movement run by the same
people behind the Shabari Kumbh Mela. http://www.ekal.org . They have
set up over 15,000 school in Tribal Districts of India. They educate
nearly 500,000 or half a million children every day. If that is not
serving the tribal then I don't know what it is. Other NGOs can't even
dream of such numbers.
http://www.youtube.com/results?search=ekal&search_type=search_videos&search=Search
S Jan
Post by d***@gmail.com
Why do Christians and Islamic people have to convert people. why cant
they leave people as they are.
are we on same page?
2006-02-14 03:43:12 UTC
Permalink
to keep hindus in perpetual poverty so they can serve the white/arab
masters. both are imperialist political viruses injected into hindu body
politic to destroy it.
Post by d***@gmail.com
Why do Christians and Islamic people have to convert people. why cant
they leave people as they are.
rsspune
2006-02-13 05:15:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by PratapTambay
Post by and/or www.mantra.com/jai (Dr. Jai Maharaj)
Dharma sabha. Sensing danger, Christian missionaries
asked Swamiji, "What brings you here?" The Swami posed
them the same question. We have come here to serve the
people replied the Christian missionaries. "I have come
here to drive away those who have come here to serve"
retorted the Swami. That was the beginning of the Hindu
awakening in the Dangs.
What exactly is wrong with christians serving those who need to be
served?
Why did the swami make this violent statement, unworthy of his
religion?
Can't he win over people by serving them and helping improve their
economic and social status?
How did his statement awaken anyone? Does such awakening have any
meaning?
Swami and we all can win and are winning over people by serving them
and helping them to improve their economic and social status but our
fight is against those who don't want the good things to happen without
making any baseless alligations against hindus!

These christians are loosing their base in conversions from their own
community and they are not getting support in terms of decreasing no.in
FATHERS/SISTERS for conversion bcoz people are realizing their fake
traditions for conversion.........
Post by PratapTambay
Awakening in the Indian tradition is to understand ones self-interest
and realize how to persue it without hurting anyone else's
self-interest.
The swami did not do this. He is a fraud and a disgrace to Indian
religious tradition.
harmony
2006-02-13 00:11:32 UTC
Permalink
the hindu poors were the most visible in great numbers.
looking at the non-hindus around, some raised the slogans: "delete dalit".
the non-hindu boodist dalits were seen saying to non-hindu kirastani dalits
to "know it off with your kibab-me-haddi attitude". looks like some boodists
want to be pally-pally with hindus.
Post by and/or www.mantra.com/jai (Dr. Jai Maharaj)
SHABRIKUMBH: TOWARDS A MASSIVE HINDU AWAKENING
[ Subject: Shabrikumbh: towards a massive Hindu awakening
[ Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2006
Shabrikumbh: towards a massive Hindu awakening
Visit
http://www.shabarikumbh.org
To Protect Vanvasis, Massive Counter-Missionary
Shabarikumbh Planned
Posted January 1, 2006
- From
http://www.christianaggression.org/item_display.php?type=NEWS&id=1136142983
Post by and/or www.mantra.com/jai (Dr. Jai Maharaj)
A huge kumbh (religious gathering) of Hindus is on the
cards on February 11, 12 and 13, 2006. Named Shabri Kumbh
it promises to be an unprecedented assembly of awakened
Hindus. The Kumbh will be the culmination of sustained
efforts towards awakening the Hindus in general and the
vanavasi Hindus in the Dang region of Gujarat in
particular.
Vanavasi Hindus target of Christian missionary offensive
For long, Bharat has been a special target of the
Christian Church worldwide. To the Church, the Hindus
represent the greatest stumbling block in their grand
design to establish Christs kingdom on earth. The poor,
illiterate, mild Vanvasi Hindu is an obvious target in
this nefarious scheme. For years, under the garb of
social service, the Church has been spreading its
tentacles in far-flung, tribal regions of our country.
These converted vanavasis become alienated from their
customs and traditions. They get uprooted from their
cultural milieu. Conversion to Christianity is invariably
associated with separatism and terrorism as is evident in
North-East Bharat. There are several areas in our country
which have become hotbeds of christian missionary
activity. The Dang district in Gujarat is one such area.
The word Dang is a corruption of Dandakaranya, the
legendary forest where Shri Raam and Lakshman spent some
time while in exile. It is in this region that Shabari
Mata, the immortal devotee of Shri Raam met her Lord and
lovingly offered him sweet berries which she had tasted
herself. The spot where this meeting took place is
located on Chamak hill in this region. There is a temple
of Shabari Mata at this site. The picturesque Pampa
sarovar (lake) is located in this region. Situated on the
border of Gujarat and Maharashtra, this district is
predominantly inhabited by vanavasi Hindus. The district
has 352 villages; the district headquarter is Ahwa. The
town of Navapur in Maharashtra is close to the Dang
district of Gujarat.
It is pertinent to note that the first church was
established in Dang district in 1904. Since then,
conversions to Christianity had been progressing at an
alarming rate. In the period 1991-2001, the Christian
population grew by a massive 400 per cent! The process of
self-alienation and separatism which inevitably
accompanies conversion had become visible in Dang.
Makeshift, illegal churches had mushroomed in cowsheds
and residential areas. These churches were unregistered
and illegal. Such was the terrorism of Christian
activists that it had become unsafe for Hindus to move
out of their houses after dusk. It was in the midst of
such hostile conditions that a Hindu swami descended upon
Dang
Arrival of Swami Aseemananda
Swami Aseemananda, a Hindu sannyasi heads the shraddha
vibhag of the Akhil Bharatiya Vanavasi Kalyan Ashram. For
over 50 years, the Vanavasi Kalyan Ashram has been doing
yeoman work in the vanavasi regions of Bharat. A Bengali
by birth, Swamiji has spent several years in the Andaman
and Nicobar islands. His innovative and bold methods in
arousing the latent feeling of Hindutva amongst the
vanavasis have made him a byword in the field of Hindu
awakening. Little wonder then that Christian zealots have
made many murderous attempts on his life. Deeply
concerned by the Christianization of Dang, Swamiji
resolved to stay in Dang and foil the designs of
Christian missionaries. It was in August 1997 that this
saffron-clad sannyasi set foot in Dang. All that he
carried with him in this unfamiliar and hostile terrain
were around 500 lockets of Hanuman and an unshakeable
resolve! He would knock at the door of each house and
would ask the inmates one question, "Are you Hindu or
christian?" At the house of one such Hindu, Swamiji asked
him, "May I spend the night in your house?" The Hindu
gladly welcomed Swamiji. Swamiji kept his luggage,
distributed the Hanuman lockets to the children and asked
them to bring their Hindu friends in the evening for a
Ram katha. That night, Dang witnessed the first ever
Dharma sabha. Sensing danger, Christian missionaries
asked Swamiji, "What brings you here?" The Swami posed
them the same question. We have come here to serve the
people replied the Christian missionaries. "I have come
here to drive away those who have come here to serve"
retorted the Swami. That was the beginning of the Hindu
awakening in the Dangs.
Hindu awakening in the Dangs
In 1998, 25000 Christians embraced the religion of their
forefathers in just two months. The submissive Hindu who
had been hitherto terrorized by the Christian
missionaries began to assert himself. "Hindu jaage,
Christi bhaage" became a popular slogan of the vanavasis
of Dang. From 1998-2004, a total of 55 Vishal Hindu
Sammelans were organized. These were attended by a total
of four lakh Hindus. As Hindus objected to conversion
activities of Christian missionaries, clashes broke out.
The so-called mainstream media used this pretext to
tarnish the Hindus. In December 2004, press reporters
from 40 countries descended upon the Dangs and spread a
misinformation campaign. As a result, the court
restrained the Hindus from conducting any public ceremony
around Christmas in future. Meanwhile, the tide of Hindu
awakening only swelled. Today, Christian conversion
activities have come to a halt not only in Dangs but also
in the surrounding twelve districts.
In 2002, Hindu activists approached the famed Ramayana
kathakar Shri Morari Bapu and told him, "You mesmerise
thousands with Ram Katha. We request you to organize Ram
Katha in Dang wher Shri Raam himself spent some time".
Shri Morari Bapu readily agreed. The tremendous response
overwhelmed Shri Morari. In the course of his speech, he
spontaneously expressed the desire that a formal kumbh be
organized at the spot where Shabari Mata had met Shri
Raam. Shri Morari Bapus desire was taken up as an order
to be implemented. Thus was born the idea of Shabari
kumbh.
Scale of the Shabari Kumbh
Organizing a kumbh in a remote, heavily forested area is
a nightmare as far as logistics is concerned. It requires
steely resolve, meticulous planning and precision to make
the programme a grand success. The 352 villages in Dang
district had no electricity, or roads; the town of Ahwa
is a good 35 km from the proposed site of the kumbh There
are no medical facilities or eateries in the vicinity.
But the famed organizational might of the Rashtriya
Swayamsevak Sangh, Vanavasi Kalyan Ashram, Vishwa Hindu
Parishad and other like-minded organizations is in full
gear. Realizing the importance of such a venture to the
state of Gujarat, the state government of Shri Narendra
Modi has extended full co-operation. Planning started
atleast one and a half years ago. A 250-200 hectare site
has been chosen for the kumbh. The state government has
undertaken construction of roads on a war footing. All
the 352 villages of Dang have got electrification. A
total of 22 check dams have been built on the river that
feeds the Pampa sarovar where the holy bath will take
place. A total of 20 lakh vanavasis reside in an area of
80 km around Dang. A survey of 5000 villages in Gujarat,
Maharashtra, Madhya Pradesh was completed in the initial
phase. Around 30-35 lakh vanavasis were contacted in this
massive exercise. An estimated six lakh Hindus will
attend the kumbh; of these, around two lakh are likely to
stay for all three days. To arrange for their lodging, 40
townships each with a capacity of 5000 people will be
erected. Each township will have 100 workers to look
after various arrangements such as security, food,
medical aid etc. Thus a total of 4000 workers will be
required to look after the arrangements in the townships;
an additional 2000 workers will be involved in other
arrangemets.
About 388 vanavasi janajatis and 137 urban jatis which
are currently facing missionary onslaught will be
represented at the kumbh. Further, dharmacharyas from all
over the country including 800 vanavasi sants will be
attending the kumbh and taking part in the deliberations.
Each participant will be given a locket of his
ishtadevata; Around 20 lakh lockets, 5 lakh Hanuman
chalisa and 5 lakh bhagwa dhwaj will be distributed.
Programme
11 February 2006 Shri Morari Bapu, Swami Satyamitanandji
Giri(Haridwar)
Mahila sammelan to be attended by 70-80000 women, to be
addressed by Sadhvi Shiva Saraswati
12 February 2006 Ma. Shri Sudarshanji, Swami
Avdheshananda of Juna Akhada Yuvak sammelan
13 Februray 2006 Sadhvi Ritambaraji, Shrimad
Shankaracharya of Jyotishpeeth water from sacred rivers
all over Bharat will be poured in the Pampa sarovar
There will be an exhibition of vanavasi freedom-fighters
and heroes as also sixteen vanavasi dance performances,
each of 1-2 hours duration on eight different platforms
during the kumbh.
Budget
As expected, the budget of this kumbh will run into
crores. Even at the rate of Rs. 6 per food plate, the
cost of feeding the kumbh participants daily runs into
lakhs.
What after the kumbh?
The kumbh will provide a boost to the Hindu movement in
Gujarat, Maharashtra and Madhya Pradesh. In particular,
the vanavasi Hindu will get tremendous confidence. The
momentum generated by the kumbh is expected to trigger
the reurn of thousands of Christian vanavasi converts
back to the Hindu fold. A disinformation campaign has
already been started by the so-called mainstream media.
Allegations of damage to the environment are being made.
These are totally baseless; fact is not a single tree has
been cut. This fact has been written by the district
magistrate himself in a letter to the Governor. In fact,
the tourism in this area will receive a boost as the
Gujarat government plans to make this into a full-fledged
tourism spot. Infrastructure in this area has been
completed thanks to the kumbh. Building of 22 check dams
on the local river will ensure uninterrupted water flow
all year around A permanent hospital will come up near
the site of the kumbh which will be devoted mainly to
diseases of women.
What we can do?
Workers in their thousands are required in the
arrangements of the kumbh. We can volunteer to spend 7 or
14 or 30 days in the run up to the kumbh Generous
donations are required to meet the expenses of this
massive event. The success of this event depends on the
active co-operation of all Hindus All donation are exempt
under section 80 G of Income Tax Act. Cheques may be
drawn in the name of Shri Shabri Kumbh Samaroh Aayojan
Samiti. Donations may be sent to RSS Office.
Spread the word of the kumbh amongst friends and
relatives.
Dangs prepared for biggest Hindu event
2/10/2006 10:56:37 AM HK
Source -
http://haindavakeralam.org/PageModule.aspx?PageID=665&SKIN=B
Dangs - All preparations are made in Dangs as one of the
biggest Hindu event – Shabari Kumbh Mela will begin
tomorrow on the banks of Pampa Sarovar.
Tomorrow the Kumbh will begin with Kumbh Snan and Kumbh
Pujan at 0800 hrs, in which thousands of pilgrims will
participate. Six ghats have been erected, covering 2.5 km
area along the Sarovar. It will be followed by Dharma
Sabha, which will be addressed by saints Jagadguru
Shankaracharya Swami Vasudevanand Saraswati (Jyotirmath),
Swami Satyamitranand Giri, Sants Morari Bapu and Asaram
Bapu, Dr Pranav Pandya (Gayatri Parivar), Swami
Awadheshanand Giri (Haridwar), Sadhvi Ritambhara, Sadhvi
Shiva Saraswati and others.
The second day will be dominated by youth, mahila and
sant sammelans.
Gujrat Chief Minister Shri. Narendra Modi, RSS Chief
Shri. K S Sudarshan and VHP leader Shri. Ashok Singhal
are expected to participate in the mela. Union Minister
of state Manikrao Gavit is also expected to attend the
inaugural function.
Over five lakh devotees including thousands of sadhus and
sants and top leaders of all Hindu organizations & BJP
will be turning up for the mega event and take a ritual
dip in holy lake.
Shri. Suresh Kulkarni, Secretary of the Shabari Kumbh
Organising Committee has ruled out the allegations by
some Christian organisation and anti Hindu medias that
during the Kumbha Mela, Hindu organizations are planning
to carry out re-conversions.
''The Kumbh will promote social integration amongst the
Vanvasis and also pave the way for their all-round
development. It will also be a unique event for promotion
of national integration as it will have countrywide
representation of all Scheduled Tribes and Scheduled
Castes,'' said Kailash Sharma, the chairman of the Kumbh
organising committee.
At this Kumbh, the agenda's clear: mobilising tribals for
Hindu jagran 2006-02-11 Published by Hindu Herald
Gathered by hindunet.org
Shabari Kumbh Site, Ahwa (Dangs), February 10: AMID
haphazard last-minute preparations at the picturesque
site surrounded by teak forests, and a seeming lack of
adequate arrangement for an expected crowd of 5 lakh, the
Shabari Kumbh is all about mobilising tribals against an
aggressive missionary campaign to convert them to
Christianity.
The organisers say only Hindu jagran will be discussed,
but the substance of the massive exercise being carried
out under the aegis of RSS-backed Vanvasi Kalyan Ashram
is clear at the entrance to the kumbh site itself. A
board says: 'One Hindu convert means addition of one more
enemy to the nation.'
Joint secretary of the organising committee, Sureshrao
Kulkarni says: ''The Kumbh, beginning Saturday, is about
instilling a sense of identity, self-reliance and self-
confidence in the tribals. Nothing more.''
The mobilisation has been massive and the campaign to the
build-up, a slanted attack on missionary activities in
the tribal belt. The accent of the whole exercise: ''We
want it known forever that tribals are Hindus,'' says an
organiser.
The mood has been pumped up through the element of
jingoism, isolating the small tribal Christian population
in the backward district. However, no disturbance is
expected, given the massive police bandobast. Battalions
have been requisitioned from as far as Delhi and Tamil
Nadu.
A day before the kumbh begins, the Shabari Mandir and the
Pampa Sarovar site - 32 km from Ahwa - saw large tribal
contingents trooping in from neighbouring districts. The
three-day event will see RSS chief K S Sudarshan, Chief
Minister Narendra Modi, VHP chief Ashok Singhal, and
saints like Murari Bapu and Asaram Bapu, address
pilgrims. Modi has been invited as chief guest for the
Saturday inaugural.
A skeptical sadhu, who says this is not the right Kumbh,
a Vanvasi Kalyan Ashram activist selling his anti-
missionary agenda, and a constable turned guide completes
the picture for onlookers at the Pampa Sarovar -the Kumbh
site on Friday. The lake itself is the result of a web of
check dams built over the Purna river, claimed to be the
Pushkarni of the Ramayana. Half-a-kilometre ahead of the
120-feet deep sarovar, four bathing ghats have been
developed for visitors to have a holy dip. Water seems
inadequate to take care of the expected 5 lakh visitors,
prompting organisers to put up boards pleading judicious
use of water. The State Government has chipped in by
providing 100 tanks of 10,000 litre capacity to maintain
drinking water supply.
Though organisers claim all safety precautions have been
taken, a section of the tents meant to house guests
collapsed on Thursday due to strong winds. Shops with LPG
stoves next to the tents can prove dangerous under the
present windy conditions. The kilometre-long single-track
approach road itself can prove a security nightmare for
the police if the expected crowd turns out for the Kumbh.
By the time the kumbh is over, the pressure on resources
at the site might leave it in a state of environmental
disrepair. Though organisers claim all precautions have
been taken, it's highly unlikely that trees have not been
cut; that wildlife has not been disturbed by the build-
up; or resources of an already improverished region have
not been damaged. Depsite a stated ban on the use of
plastic, water bottles and snacks in plastic wrappers
will mean a massive clean-up job later on.
On the sidelines of the kumbh, business activity is
expected to be brisk. This sleepy town with a population
of 1.85 lakh does not plan to lose out on the employment
generated by the three-day event. Tribals have set up
shops and stalls selling anything from sanjivani herbs to
Punjabi food to the latest audio CDs.
For outsiders, however, making living arrangements might
pose a problem as all hotels, rest houses and forest
guest houses have been booked by the State Government for
security purposes.
Sangh call to tribal converts
By Basant Rawat
Source - telegraphindia
Dangs, Gujarat, Feb. 11 - The Sangh parivar's Shabri
Kumbh began here today with a call to tribal Christians
to "return" to the Hindu fold.
With the campaign avoiding the term "reconversion" and
using the label of "homecoming (gharvapasi)", speaker
after speaker spouted vitriol against the practice of
"conversion" by Christian missionaries.
-From Gujarat chief minister Narendra Modi to Ram
kathakar Morari Bapu and Sant Asharam Bapu, everyone on
the dais exhorted the tribals to embrace Hinduism and
warned the missionaries not to convert the "gullible"
tribals.
Inaugurating the Kumbh, Swami Satyanand Giri of Bharat
Mata Mandir, Hardwar, advised his Hindu listeners on how
to win over the tribal Christians.
"A Hindu janjagran (mass awakening) programme should be
held every month in every village. The organisers should
provide free food, like the Sikhs provide to their
people. You should ensure that every house has a Hanuman
Chalisa."
He said Hindu sants and sadhus must sincerely apologise
to the tribals and Dalits who might have converted to
Christianity because they faced discrimination from
Hindus.
The venue was packed with tribals, many of whom came from
outside the state - from neighbouring Maharashtra, Madhya
Pradesh and Rajasthan as well as from faraway Meghalaya
and the Andamans.
Modi scoffed at the "sons of Macaulay" for their failure
to understand the tribals' bond with Shabri Mata, the
daughter of a Bhil king who had offered berries to Ram.
The root of the problem, he said, is that the followers
of a particular religion believe it is superior and its
stipulated path alone leads to salvation (and that) other
religions are inferior, so their followers should be
converted.
Dangs had in the late 1990s witnessed a series of attacks
on Christians' prayer halls in its towns and villages.
Regards,
http://www.hindushakti.tk
Jai Maharaj
http://tinyurl.com/a5ljc
http://www.mantra.com/jai
Om Shanti
Hindu Holocaust Museum
http://www.mantra.com/holocaust
Hindu life, principles, spirituality and philosophy
http://www.hindu.org
http://www.hindunet.org
The truth about Islam and Muslims
http://www.flex.com/~jai/satyamevajayate
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and/or www.mantra.com/jai (Dr. Jai Maharaj)
2006-02-13 01:26:46 UTC
Permalink
Uh, buddhoos tend to remain buddhoos.

Jai Maharaj
http://tinyurl.com/a5ljc
http://www.mantra.com/jai
Om Shanti
Post by harmony
the hindu poors were the most visible in great numbers.
looking at the non-hindus around, some raised the slogans: "delete dalit".
the non-hindu boodist dalits were seen saying to non-hindu kirastani dalits
to "know it off with your kibab-me-haddi attitude". looks like some boodists
want to be pally-pally with hindus.
Post by and/or www.mantra.com/jai (Dr. Jai Maharaj)
SHABRIKUMBH: TOWARDS A MASSIVE HINDU AWAKENING
[ Subject: Shabrikumbh: towards a massive Hindu awakening
[ Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2006
Shabrikumbh: towards a massive Hindu awakening
Visit
http://www.shabarikumbh.org
To Protect Vanvasis, Massive Counter-Missionary
Shabarikumbh Planned
Posted January 1, 2006
- From
http://www.christianaggression.org/item_display.php?type=NEWS&id=1136142983
Post by and/or www.mantra.com/jai (Dr. Jai Maharaj)
A huge kumbh (religious gathering) of Hindus is on the
cards on February 11, 12 and 13, 2006. Named Shabri Kumbh
it promises to be an unprecedented assembly of awakened
Hindus. The Kumbh will be the culmination of sustained
efforts towards awakening the Hindus in general and the
vanavasi Hindus in the Dang region of Gujarat in
particular.
Vanavasi Hindus target of Christian missionary offensive
For long, Bharat has been a special target of the
Christian Church worldwide. To the Church, the Hindus
represent the greatest stumbling block in their grand
design to establish Christs kingdom on earth. The poor,
illiterate, mild Vanvasi Hindu is an obvious target in
this nefarious scheme. For years, under the garb of
social service, the Church has been spreading its
tentacles in far-flung, tribal regions of our country.
These converted vanavasis become alienated from their
customs and traditions. They get uprooted from their
cultural milieu. Conversion to Christianity is invariably
associated with separatism and terrorism as is evident in
North-East Bharat. There are several areas in our country
which have become hotbeds of christian missionary
activity. The Dang district in Gujarat is one such area.
The word Dang is a corruption of Dandakaranya, the
legendary forest where Shri Raam and Lakshman spent some
time while in exile. It is in this region that Shabari
Mata, the immortal devotee of Shri Raam met her Lord and
lovingly offered him sweet berries which she had tasted
herself. The spot where this meeting took place is
located on Chamak hill in this region. There is a temple
of Shabari Mata at this site. The picturesque Pampa
sarovar (lake) is located in this region. Situated on the
border of Gujarat and Maharashtra, this district is
predominantly inhabited by vanavasi Hindus. The district
has 352 villages; the district headquarter is Ahwa. The
town of Navapur in Maharashtra is close to the Dang
district of Gujarat.
It is pertinent to note that the first church was
established in Dang district in 1904. Since then,
conversions to Christianity had been progressing at an
alarming rate. In the period 1991-2001, the Christian
population grew by a massive 400 per cent! The process of
self-alienation and separatism which inevitably
accompanies conversion had become visible in Dang.
Makeshift, illegal churches had mushroomed in cowsheds
and residential areas. These churches were unregistered
and illegal. Such was the terrorism of Christian
activists that it had become unsafe for Hindus to move
out of their houses after dusk. It was in the midst of
such hostile conditions that a Hindu swami descended upon
Dang
Arrival of Swami Aseemananda
Swami Aseemananda, a Hindu sannyasi heads the shraddha
vibhag of the Akhil Bharatiya Vanavasi Kalyan Ashram. For
over 50 years, the Vanavasi Kalyan Ashram has been doing
yeoman work in the vanavasi regions of Bharat. A Bengali
by birth, Swamiji has spent several years in the Andaman
and Nicobar islands. His innovative and bold methods in
arousing the latent feeling of Hindutva amongst the
vanavasis have made him a byword in the field of Hindu
awakening. Little wonder then that Christian zealots have
made many murderous attempts on his life. Deeply
concerned by the Christianization of Dang, Swamiji
resolved to stay in Dang and foil the designs of
Christian missionaries. It was in August 1997 that this
saffron-clad sannyasi set foot in Dang. All that he
carried with him in this unfamiliar and hostile terrain
were around 500 lockets of Hanuman and an unshakeable
resolve! He would knock at the door of each house and
would ask the inmates one question, "Are you Hindu or
christian?" At the house of one such Hindu, Swamiji asked
him, "May I spend the night in your house?" The Hindu
gladly welcomed Swamiji. Swamiji kept his luggage,
distributed the Hanuman lockets to the children and asked
them to bring their Hindu friends in the evening for a
Ram katha. That night, Dang witnessed the first ever
Dharma sabha. Sensing danger, Christian missionaries
asked Swamiji, "What brings you here?" The Swami posed
them the same question. We have come here to serve the
people replied the Christian missionaries. "I have come
here to drive away those who have come here to serve"
retorted the Swami. That was the beginning of the Hindu
awakening in the Dangs.
Hindu awakening in the Dangs
In 1998, 25000 Christians embraced the religion of their
forefathers in just two months. The submissive Hindu who
had been hitherto terrorized by the Christian
missionaries began to assert himself. "Hindu jaage,
Christi bhaage" became a popular slogan of the vanavasis
of Dang. From 1998-2004, a total of 55 Vishal Hindu
Sammelans were organized. These were attended by a total
of four lakh Hindus. As Hindus objected to conversion
activities of Christian missionaries, clashes broke out.
The so-called mainstream media used this pretext to
tarnish the Hindus. In December 2004, press reporters
from 40 countries descended upon the Dangs and spread a
misinformation campaign. As a result, the court
restrained the Hindus from conducting any public ceremony
around Christmas in future. Meanwhile, the tide of Hindu
awakening only swelled. Today, Christian conversion
activities have come to a halt not only in Dangs but also
in the surrounding twelve districts.
In 2002, Hindu activists approached the famed Ramayana
kathakar Shri Morari Bapu and told him, "You mesmerise
thousands with Ram Katha. We request you to organize Ram
Katha in Dang wher Shri Raam himself spent some time".
Shri Morari Bapu readily agreed. The tremendous response
overwhelmed Shri Morari. In the course of his speech, he
spontaneously expressed the desire that a formal kumbh be
organized at the spot where Shabari Mata had met Shri
Raam. Shri Morari Bapus desire was taken up as an order
to be implemented. Thus was born the idea of Shabari
kumbh.
Scale of the Shabari Kumbh
Organizing a kumbh in a remote, heavily forested area is
a nightmare as far as logistics is concerned. It requires
steely resolve, meticulous planning and precision to make
the programme a grand success. The 352 villages in Dang
district had no electricity, or roads; the town of Ahwa
is a good 35 km from the proposed site of the kumbh There
are no medical facilities or eateries in the vicinity.
But the famed organizational might of the Rashtriya
Swayamsevak Sangh, Vanavasi Kalyan Ashram, Vishwa Hindu
Parishad and other like-minded organizations is in full
gear. Realizing the importance of such a venture to the
state of Gujarat, the state government of Shri Narendra
Modi has extended full co-operation. Planning started
atleast one and a half years ago. A 250-200 hectare site
has been chosen for the kumbh. The state government has
undertaken construction of roads on a war footing. All
the 352 villages of Dang have got electrification. A
total of 22 check dams have been built on the river that
feeds the Pampa sarovar where the holy bath will take
place. A total of 20 lakh vanavasis reside in an area of
80 km around Dang. A survey of 5000 villages in Gujarat,
Maharashtra, Madhya Pradesh was completed in the initial
phase. Around 30-35 lakh vanavasis were contacted in this
massive exercise. An estimated six lakh Hindus will
attend the kumbh; of these, around two lakh are likely to
stay for all three days. To arrange for their lodging, 40
townships each with a capacity of 5000 people will be
erected. Each township will have 100 workers to look
after various arrangements such as security, food,
medical aid etc. Thus a total of 4000 workers will be
required to look after the arrangements in the townships;
an additional 2000 workers will be involved in other
arrangemets.
About 388 vanavasi janajatis and 137 urban jatis which
are currently facing missionary onslaught will be
represented at the kumbh. Further, dharmacharyas from all
over the country including 800 vanavasi sants will be
attending the kumbh and taking part in the deliberations.
Each participant will be given a locket of his
ishtadevata; Around 20 lakh lockets, 5 lakh Hanuman
chalisa and 5 lakh bhagwa dhwaj will be distributed.
Programme
11 February 2006 Shri Morari Bapu, Swami Satyamitanandji
Giri(Haridwar)
Mahila sammelan to be attended by 70-80000 women, to be
addressed by Sadhvi Shiva Saraswati
12 February 2006 Ma. Shri Sudarshanji, Swami
Avdheshananda of Juna Akhada Yuvak sammelan
13 Februray 2006 Sadhvi Ritambaraji, Shrimad
Shankaracharya of Jyotishpeeth water from sacred rivers
all over Bharat will be poured in the Pampa sarovar
There will be an exhibition of vanavasi freedom-fighters
and heroes as also sixteen vanavasi dance performances,
each of 1-2 hours duration on eight different platforms
during the kumbh.
Budget
As expected, the budget of this kumbh will run into
crores. Even at the rate of Rs. 6 per food plate, the
cost of feeding the kumbh participants daily runs into
lakhs.
What after the kumbh?
The kumbh will provide a boost to the Hindu movement in
Gujarat, Maharashtra and Madhya Pradesh. In particular,
the vanavasi Hindu will get tremendous confidence. The
momentum generated by the kumbh is expected to trigger
the reurn of thousands of Christian vanavasi converts
back to the Hindu fold. A disinformation campaign has
already been started by the so-called mainstream media.
Allegations of damage to the environment are being made.
These are totally baseless; fact is not a single tree has
been cut. This fact has been written by the district
magistrate himself in a letter to the Governor. In fact,
the tourism in this area will receive a boost as the
Gujarat government plans to make this into a full-fledged
tourism spot. Infrastructure in this area has been
completed thanks to the kumbh. Building of 22 check dams
on the local river will ensure uninterrupted water flow
all year around A permanent hospital will come up near
the site of the kumbh which will be devoted mainly to
diseases of women.
What we can do?
Workers in their thousands are required in the
arrangements of the kumbh. We can volunteer to spend 7 or
14 or 30 days in the run up to the kumbh Generous
donations are required to meet the expenses of this
massive event. The success of this event depends on the
active co-operation of all Hindus All donation are exempt
under section 80 G of Income Tax Act. Cheques may be
drawn in the name of Shri Shabri Kumbh Samaroh Aayojan
Samiti. Donations may be sent to RSS Office.
Spread the word of the kumbh amongst friends and
relatives.
Dangs prepared for biggest Hindu event
2/10/2006 10:56:37 AM HK
Source -
http://haindavakeralam.org/PageModule.aspx?PageID=665&SKIN=B
Dangs - All preparations are made in Dangs as one of the
biggest Hindu event – Shabari Kumbh Mela will begin
tomorrow on the banks of Pampa Sarovar.
Tomorrow the Kumbh will begin with Kumbh Snan and Kumbh
Pujan at 0800 hrs, in which thousands of pilgrims will
participate. Six ghats have been erected, covering 2.5 km
area along the Sarovar. It will be followed by Dharma
Sabha, which will be addressed by saints Jagadguru
Shankaracharya Swami Vasudevanand Saraswati (Jyotirmath),
Swami Satyamitranand Giri, Sants Morari Bapu and Asaram
Bapu, Dr Pranav Pandya (Gayatri Parivar), Swami
Awadheshanand Giri (Haridwar), Sadhvi Ritambhara, Sadhvi
Shiva Saraswati and others.
The second day will be dominated by youth, mahila and
sant sammelans.
Gujrat Chief Minister Shri. Narendra Modi, RSS Chief
Shri. K S Sudarshan and VHP leader Shri. Ashok Singhal
are expected to participate in the mela. Union Minister
of state Manikrao Gavit is also expected to attend the
inaugural function.
Over five lakh devotees including thousands of sadhus and
sants and top leaders of all Hindu organizations & BJP
will be turning up for the mega event and take a ritual
dip in holy lake.
Shri. Suresh Kulkarni, Secretary of the Shabari Kumbh
Organising Committee has ruled out the allegations by
some Christian organisation and anti Hindu medias that
during the Kumbha Mela, Hindu organizations are planning
to carry out re-conversions.
''The Kumbh will promote social integration amongst the
Vanvasis and also pave the way for their all-round
development. It will also be a unique event for promotion
of national integration as it will have countrywide
representation of all Scheduled Tribes and Scheduled
Castes,'' said Kailash Sharma, the chairman of the Kumbh
organising committee.
At this Kumbh, the agenda's clear: mobilising tribals for
Hindu jagran 2006-02-11 Published by Hindu Herald
Gathered by hindunet.org
Shabari Kumbh Site, Ahwa (Dangs), February 10: AMID
haphazard last-minute preparations at the picturesque
site surrounded by teak forests, and a seeming lack of
adequate arrangement for an expected crowd of 5 lakh, the
Shabari Kumbh is all about mobilising tribals against an
aggressive missionary campaign to convert them to
Christianity.
The organisers say only Hindu jagran will be discussed,
but the substance of the massive exercise being carried
out under the aegis of RSS-backed Vanvasi Kalyan Ashram
is clear at the entrance to the kumbh site itself. A
board says: 'One Hindu convert means addition of one more
enemy to the nation.'
Joint secretary of the organising committee, Sureshrao
Kulkarni says: ''The Kumbh, beginning Saturday, is about
instilling a sense of identity, self-reliance and self-
confidence in the tribals. Nothing more.''
The mobilisation has been massive and the campaign to the
build-up, a slanted attack on missionary activities in
the tribal belt. The accent of the whole exercise: ''We
want it known forever that tribals are Hindus,'' says an
organiser.
The mood has been pumped up through the element of
jingoism, isolating the small tribal Christian population
in the backward district. However, no disturbance is
expected, given the massive police bandobast. Battalions
have been requisitioned from as far as Delhi and Tamil
Nadu.
A day before the kumbh begins, the Shabari Mandir and the
Pampa Sarovar site - 32 km from Ahwa - saw large tribal
contingents trooping in from neighbouring districts. The
three-day event will see RSS chief K S Sudarshan, Chief
Minister Narendra Modi, VHP chief Ashok Singhal, and
saints like Murari Bapu and Asaram Bapu, address
pilgrims. Modi has been invited as chief guest for the
Saturday inaugural.
A skeptical sadhu, who says this is not the right Kumbh,
a Vanvasi Kalyan Ashram activist selling his anti-
missionary agenda, and a constable turned guide completes
the picture for onlookers at the Pampa Sarovar -the Kumbh
site on Friday. The lake itself is the result of a web of
check dams built over the Purna river, claimed to be the
Pushkarni of the Ramayana. Half-a-kilometre ahead of the
120-feet deep sarovar, four bathing ghats have been
developed for visitors to have a holy dip. Water seems
inadequate to take care of the expected 5 lakh visitors,
prompting organisers to put up boards pleading judicious
use of water. The State Government has chipped in by
providing 100 tanks of 10,000 litre capacity to maintain
drinking water supply.
Though organisers claim all safety precautions have been
taken, a section of the tents meant to house guests
collapsed on Thursday due to strong winds. Shops with LPG
stoves next to the tents can prove dangerous under the
present windy conditions. The kilometre-long single-track
approach road itself can prove a security nightmare for
the police if the expected crowd turns out for the Kumbh.
By the time the kumbh is over, the pressure on resources
at the site might leave it in a state of environmental
disrepair. Though organisers claim all precautions have
been taken, it's highly unlikely that trees have not been
cut; that wildlife has not been disturbed by the build-
up; or resources of an already improverished region have
not been damaged. Depsite a stated ban on the use of
plastic, water bottles and snacks in plastic wrappers
will mean a massive clean-up job later on.
On the sidelines of the kumbh, business activity is
expected to be brisk. This sleepy town with a population
of 1.85 lakh does not plan to lose out on the employment
generated by the three-day event. Tribals have set up
shops and stalls selling anything from sanjivani herbs to
Punjabi food to the latest audio CDs.
For outsiders, however, making living arrangements might
pose a problem as all hotels, rest houses and forest
guest houses have been booked by the State Government for
security purposes.
Sangh call to tribal converts
By Basant Rawat
Source - telegraphindia
Dangs, Gujarat, Feb. 11 - The Sangh parivar's Shabri
Kumbh began here today with a call to tribal Christians
to "return" to the Hindu fold.
With the campaign avoiding the term "reconversion" and
using the label of "homecoming (gharvapasi)", speaker
after speaker spouted vitriol against the practice of
"conversion" by Christian missionaries.
-From Gujarat chief minister Narendra Modi to Ram
kathakar Morari Bapu and Sant Asharam Bapu, everyone on
the dais exhorted the tribals to embrace Hinduism and
warned the missionaries not to convert the "gullible"
tribals.
Inaugurating the Kumbh, Swami Satyanand Giri of Bharat
Mata Mandir, Hardwar, advised his Hindu listeners on how
to win over the tribal Christians.
"A Hindu janjagran (mass awakening) programme should be
held every month in every village. The organisers should
provide free food, like the Sikhs provide to their
people. You should ensure that every house has a Hanuman
Chalisa."
He said Hindu sants and sadhus must sincerely apologise
to the tribals and Dalits who might have converted to
Christianity because they faced discrimination from
Hindus.
The venue was packed with tribals, many of whom came from
outside the state - from neighbouring Maharashtra, Madhya
Pradesh and Rajasthan as well as from faraway Meghalaya
and the Andamans.
Modi scoffed at the "sons of Macaulay" for their failure
to understand the tribals' bond with Shabri Mata, the
daughter of a Bhil king who had offered berries to Ram.
The root of the problem, he said, is that the followers
of a particular religion believe it is superior and its
stipulated path alone leads to salvation (and that) other
religions are inferior, so their followers should be
converted.
Dangs had in the late 1990s witnessed a series of attacks
on Christians' prayer halls in its towns and villages.
Regards,
http://www.hindushakti.tk
Jai Maharaj
http://tinyurl.com/a5ljc
http://www.mantra.com/jai
Om Shanti
Hindu Holocaust Museum
http://www.mantra.com/holocaust
Hindu life, principles, spirituality and philosophy
http://www.hindu.org
http://www.hindunet.org
The truth about Islam and Muslims
http://www.flex.com/~jai/satyamevajayate
o Not for commercial use. Solely to be fairly used for the
educational
Post by and/or www.mantra.com/jai (Dr. Jai Maharaj)
purposes of research and open discussion. The contents of this post may
not
Post by and/or www.mantra.com/jai (Dr. Jai Maharaj)
have been authored by, and do not necessarily represent the opinion of the
poster. The contents are protected by copyright law and the exemption for
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o If you send private e-mail to me, it will likely not be read,
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are
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article.
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FAIR USE NOTICE: This article may contain copyrighted material the use of
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Title
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17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed without
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